If you tend to vote conservative can I ask a few questions - let’s keep it light and respectful!

[Holidayhavanas]

Full disclosure I tend to vote Labour, but I’m really interested to know if you tend to vote for the tories, what is your reasoning behind. the real shortage of qualified public sector workers for example teachers, social workers, police. A health service and education system on it’s knees. Police forces like Manchester and Met in special forces. I think that it’s symptomatic of years of underfunding. I work in the public sector and feel on a daily basis that the country is absolutely screwed. I assume most tory supporters would say it’s down to austerity but I feel it’s ideological cutting back on public funding. I’mgenuinely open to hear other views as I find it so depressing and just hope that it’s something I am missing. Let’s try and keep this respectful 😊

Yes he opted out

tbh he’s very good as defence and we probably need him there

So another question for those who have studied politics or were old to remember, I can’t imagine the miner strikes everyone listening calmly to opposing views. It’s obvious social media has made it worse and fragmentation of media. However, I remember being a child in the 80s and watching thatcher and Kinnock shouting at each other in parliament. Is it much worse now ?

I think it's the anonymous nature of Internet forums that makes the difference. I've sat down and had pleasant conversations with friends who vote differently from me in GEs and also the Brexit referendum.

The MN threads about the Conservative party and Brexit have been particularly unpleasant over the last few years. The level of anger directed at posters who voted differently is really hard to understand. They have a different set of political beliefs, they haven't murdered anyone or committed a crime.

I think for a lot of years there was a lot of anger towards the tories and anyone who voted for them up here (NE England) regarding the closing of the mines.
My personal reflection on it i think is that the policy was one thing, but it was the fact that Mrs Thatcher really didn't seem to care at all about the personal cost or what it would do to these communities.
In the end it probably was inevitable that the industry would close. But some of these places have still not recovered.
So people were angry about that and do extend that to people who voted the party in. It is personal to them, lives were ruined really.

It is interesting the likes of Nadine Dornie, who is from a working class background see Conservatives as the way out for these communities too though.

On the inheritance question, at 66 DH and I have yet to inherit anything. It won't be the value of a house, and it won't scratch the IHT threshold, because my dear but demented MIL is spending £4k monthly on her care home fees, funded by the sale of her home. At 93, she won't go on forever, so what's left if any will be shared out. My DM's very modest house won't excite the Treasury either. Our single child will do well out of us. He will have what we don't manage to spend in retirement, and while we're not in the top 5% we have been sensible and saved our pennies steadily. Our fairly successful micro-business we hope will be sold, either to a staff buyout or a trade buyer so our live political concern is what happens to entrepreneur's relief. We bought our house decades ago and it's probably earned more than we have! But all the above sort of explains why I lean Tory most of the time. I shall probably vote Labour at the next GE if we have the same candidate again AND as long as Momentum are contained.

Dorries obviously.

True I’ve been here a while and it hasn’t always been like this

to op there’s a good programme by Rory Stewart on arguments including SM which is a great listen atm

It depends on how you define worse @Holidayhavanas. Politicians have always insulted one another but they used to be a bit cleverer - Churchill described Attlee as a sheep in sheep’s clothing and said an empty taxi pulled up and Attlee got out. Bevan said Tories were vermin - not remotely clever but much worse than scum. Thatcher said the miners were a fanatical minority and the enemies of democracy.

What you would never have seen was a politician giving the public the finger as they went into Downing Street - for some reason I found that really shocking.

I taught a class during my PCGE year that started with two Churchill quotes: "the best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter" versus "democracy is the worst form of government -- apart from all the others that have been tried". I've seen better openings for classes of 15 year olds but not a lot that've got such a response. Everyone was outraged.

@Holidayhavanas I studied politics and government in the mid 1970s but I missed the miners strike in the 80s because I was living in Reagan America. It was sometimes on the news but I only thought about it because my DMs then new partner came from South Yorkshire. He was not a miner though.

I thought some here might find this interesting reading..

capx.co/what-would-britain-look-like-if-it-was-run-by-benign-economists/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=29%2F07%2F22

You lot are clearly having a livelier social Friday night than me.

www.ted.com/talks/kate_raworth_a_healthy_economy_should_be_designed_to_thrive_not_grow

I'm here 👋
I wonder what you think of this model?
I read the link you posted but I must admit I didn't understand a lot of it.

Which corroborates your Winston Churchill quote about 5 minutes talking to the average voter.

How can labour tell us all what they would do in detail? They don't have the treasury figures and we are 2 years out from a GE..
fwiw they have called for vat cut, reversal of NI rises, more targeted support.

Handing out '00s to ALL bill payers is economic madness, so the well off (which is the majority) get £400 but don't need it... meanwhile someone on min wage or a struggling pensioner doesn't get anything like what they need.

Ukraine? i don't think the UK can sort out that.... Starmer seems to be in full support of what the UK has done so far but it needs a global effort and a change of direction by the Russians before they'll be peace in the region.

Starmer has made a few broad statements eg Brexit, and more recent one. I hear about them on Times radio but they don’t seem to get much cut through.

Tugendhat backed Truss - they must be fairly certain as a way to get on team / maybe good position

Wallace would be defence anyway imo but not sure what TT would aim for

That leaves Badenoch who didn’t back Truss before and I don’t think has said more

Yes Truss will get the top job and be out inside 12months, she just doesn't come across very well and there is too much footage of her making idiotic comments and speeches, she also panics.

Apparently, BJ thinks he'll be back in no10 before the next GE.... i don't think thats so outlandish....

For the good of the country, i'd rather have Sunak, he seems have a much better grasp of economics than Truss... i mean tax cuts when the NHS is falling apart and Social care is non existent in many areas, he is of course now having to promise stuff he doesn't believe in just to try and beat her.

We’ll see. I thought she was woeful in first debate and put her last, but by third she had improved and taken polls with her.

The media plays a role - if they continue to support it’s a different picture than if they turn

On Sunak he was my preferred option, but only he wants to keep NI tax even Labour opposed it and Truss will remove it

He hasn’t had a great campaign - his last debate where he over talked didn’t help

Thanks @MichaelAndEagle . Interesting TED talk and new to me, but I agree with her that the endless pursuit of growth is unsustainable.

I've name changed since last posting, but just wanted to come back to this thread because there is perfect example of the type of abuse Tory voters get from others running on mumsnet at the moment. The OP declares all of them are racist, and another charming poster says

I'll stand by the fact that Tory voters are selfish, bigoted, thick, or a combination of the three

These are the types of vitriolic comments that are painting Labour voters in a bad light and massively turn off floating voters

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4602759-to-feel-angry-at-tory-voters

@JosephineGH Funny you still think Corbyn and McDonald are still in charge of Labour policy, though as your DH works in the EU, why would the previous Labour policy on hi earners effect you too much? Surely pays more tax in Europe?

Those on the left (though Labour is of course no where nr Left, centre right in european terms) get plenty of muck thrown at them, not just by Con supporters either but the leadership.

You however, apparently being an EU national and no long term genuine interest in the UK... "Citizens of no-where" i believe a recent Tory PM called EU citizens living in the UK.... can easily move if Labour get in, daring to make you pay a tiny bit more tax... , the vast majority of us however are stuck with a Zombie Govt with no clue how to tackle a cost of living or the NHS crisis that neither will bother you to greatly.

Any Govt should govern for the majority/best interests, not just the far right/wealthy, which is why the Tories are so far behind in the Polls and hopefully with Truss as PM, will fall even further behind.

Sunak might have won the next GE but i suspect he had the wrong look for the elderly white middle class who will decide the next PM.

I have long had a theory that Momentum have a platoon of identities that swoop in aiming to drown out other voices, and especially Tory one. Reasonable and respectful discussions, like this one, are fairly rare.

Sending everyone to the current thread - 'To feel angry at Tory voters'. Go and witness the insults in real time.

Any Govt should govern for the majority/best interests, not just the far right/wealthy, which is why the Tories are so far behind in the Polls and hopefully with Truss as PM, will fall even further behind.

Hasn't Truss just overtaken Starmer over who would make the better PM?

Sunak might have won the next GE but i suspect he had the wrong look for the elderly white middle class who will decide the next PM.

Seriously? The party who has already had 2 women PMs? And is now going to elect either a woman or an Asian man is less diverse in its outlook than the Labour party with a male, middle-class, white knight at its head? 🤔