What does upper middle class look like?

[LabradorsLabradorsLabradors]

In conversation with an acquaintance (unrelated, but about the readership of the New Statesman magazine), I was just referred to as upper middle class. I'm not, by the way. Or at least not in the way I think of it. I was a lower middle class child who went to a smart school on an assisted place, did well academically, and married 'up' (I guess quite a long way up), having met DH through mutual friends. It just galls a bit, because I'm proud of my roots (Jewish refugees, tenant farmers, an early Labour MP), and want my kids to be too.

It was a pretty confident assertion, given she doesn't know much about me, and I'm wondering what made her think that. What does upper middle class look like?

I agree, that those that really are UMC do know, and I guess if they cared they wouldn't have stuck with us. Our friends are a pretty varied bunch, in terms of profession, faith lifestyle etc. and so I suppose class origins are perhaps less of an issue than if we'd been drawn into an English 'set'.

I think the difference between middle middle and upper middle is in the level of taking privilege for granted, and a lot of that is propped up by private education. I’d call my family solidly middle middle, and we went to state schools. Ostensibly because they were better, and my parents didn’t agree with the private system, but in reality I think they’d have struggled to do it financially if they’d had to. That meant that the people around us were much more mixed, and I was quite aware as a child that there were people who did as a matter of course things that were a treat for us, but also that there were plenty who were much less comfortable. And I learned quite young how to navigate that and fit in with both. Friends I knew who were more “lower middle” would unfailingly comment when they thought something was “posh”, but I had it dinned into me that that is the greatest social crime you can possibly commit. And people I knew who were more “upper middle” than us genuinely didn’t seem to come into contact with anyone who wasn’t more of less the same as them, it just didn’t happen.

Maybe that’s the mark of the middle middle class. I know all the rules, and I can spot pretty easily pretty quickly where someone fits, but I know it’s bullshit and I know it makes you an arsehole to comment. Upper middles are less embarrassed by the whole thing, they just accept it as a fact of life and don’t give it much thought. And lower middles care about it, but they don’t always get it right.

Upper middle class is the people in Made in
Chelsea.

Absolutely not. Son of a newspaper editor and a secretary. No family land or titles, despite the shtick.

Do you and/or your husband go to work? Then you're working class. I'm very much working class, and very proud of it.

Class, by the way, cannot be bought (think the Beckhams, Katie Price, Kerry Katona, you get the idea). Having a few labradors doesn't make you middle class or any other class. You're a snob.

That’s me but I very much consider myself working class

Perhaps it is his 19th century vocabulary that made me think that he was upper class!

UMC is one very small step down from upper class. Small, but significant.

I suspect a genuinely upper class person might describe it thus: "Such lovely people, but... well, they're just not quite one of us, are they?".

UMC trappings look different in different countries. Eg in China there are signifiers that you don't get in the UK. The common ground is relative societal freedom. Sure that's why Johnson et al were unconcerned about leaving the EU - UMC already live and operate globally and borders, laws etc don't have the same ramifications for them.

Surely JRM is upper upper class?

Not that it matters, but like many not born to it, JRM was born into quite a middle class family and married into minor aristocracy. The family home is from her side of the family. Sigh.

@teendivided If we must play this game, then I would say university educated, professional job, owns own house, comfortable money wise to have a non ancient car and regular holidays.

Nope. That matches us and most of our friends and our/their adult children. We're middle class; not upper middle class.

@RollOnWinter working class doesn't mean you go to work barristers and surgeons go to work but unlikely to be working class

As a non English person, who has never lived in England, I sometimes can't believe that these threads are actually real. Then when you look at Boris Johnson and it kind of makes more sense.

I think private school is definitely one of the markers, either for yourself or your children.

My parents were working class, but I'm middle class. I had a middle class childhood. I think no matter what happens to me now (as it happens I earn below average wage, and live in a rented flat) I will always be middle class. It would be disingenuous to claim a working class status, as I had a lot of privileges from a mc upbringing.

I think UMC people wouldn't expend a moment's energy wondering if they were or not.

Well you just said you married 'way up' and if you thought of yourself as lower middle and she doesn't know you then why are you surprised she thinks you are upper?
A friend came out with something about my 'extremely wealthy parents'. Because from when she knew me they were well off (not extreme anything, but hard graft meant they were certainly comfortable).
She didn't know that my parents borrowed money to buy our school uniforms for a couple years, that as a family of five we lived in a friends one bed flat for several months. When she met me my parents were almost 60 and had their own home and a holiday home in Spain (funnily enough this friend now has a holiday home too, but I bet doesn't think of herself as 'extremely wealthy'). I'd consider her - daughter of a doctor, a professional educated woman, own home, etc, and me, also a daughter of a doctor, professional educated woman, own home, to be of equal class. I may ultimately have more money (my husband was a high earner), but wealth is only one indicator of class. I Know a couple upper class people who have no money at all (I do think upper class is more a matter of breeding, middle class is education and profession, working is less educated and more manual jobs. There is the possibility of social mobility between the latter two, but not to the top unless married into it and even then probably considered an outsider).
You say you are proud of your roots - but being more successful (at least monetarily) doesn't negate your background.

Reminds me of that comedy sketch where one vair posh ladies asks another "Do you have swans on your lake?" and she replies "Only on the small one" 😂 😂

@8fttrampoline how does the class system play out in your country then? All countries have one. What's the difference between yours and the UK's that makes you so incredulous?

UMC is just one step down from aristocratic Earl, Lord, Lady etc.

Monied, trust funded no doubt, all children at the major public schools. Family wealth and used to moving in good circles.

Solid middle class is different.

UMC independently wealthy, investment portfolio, well educated, multiple homes, a ‘good’ independent school, professions or successful business lineage (not ‘new’ money - e.g. lawyer from a family of lawyers - successful, mature, business), large family home but not ‘new’ in an expensive village or the exclusive parts of a city, plenty of social capital - daddy’s friend can get you a placement in IBM, golden retrievers - that sort of thing. No titles, you buy your own furniture but you buy it from John Lewis or cute antique shops. I think there are really very few ‘upper’ class people. They’re Royal Family adjacent, titled, own estates, don’t work for a living, mega trust funds, etc. etc.

Why does it matter??
The way you describe it, you are.
If you go by what they class as middle class I'm technically that. Both went to uni and both work in the NHS. Earning (by the way you say... way up) significantly less than us. Can't say I think about it too much..., have I got a roof over my head? Yes! Can I pay my bills? yes! Do I have a job? Yes!
If I wasn't in a very northern town our money wouldn't go as far and we'd really struggle.
Both of our parents would be classed as 'working class' who then progressed to middle class by the end of their working careers.

*earning significantly less than your household

We don't have titles. I have never heard anyone label themselves as a certain class.Manners are a general thing, whereas they always seem to be brought up as something that sets classes apart on these threads. Private education is very unusual, so people generally are educated with people from their community, regardless of their parents profession or wealth. It just seems very different in England.

Actually I've just looked and our parents would be classed as new affluent workers!

UMC send children to top independent boarding schools (definitely not the local day indie, that would be middle middle)

At least 2 homes. 1 to be an estate rather than just a house.

No chain store furniture. PP said John Lewis - no that would be Lower middle.

Probably horses.

Staff (plural). Possibly not live in but minimum cleaner, gardner, nanny, PA + staff to help with the animals.

Accent - I'd think of Stephen Fry

Actually, Stephen Fry is probably a fairly typical representation of UMC (minus the prison experience)