Wwyd about friend who is always late?

[ColourfulOnesie]

I have a friend who is absolutely amazing in every way, I love her for so many different things except…
She is always late
And I mean always
I’m not talking 5 or 10 minutes either, I’m talking, if you arrange to meet at 6 she’ll text you at 7:15 to say she’s just drying her hair

I’ve known her for years and have always just laughed it off and made funny little comments about living in her own time zone etc

However for some reason now it is really starting to irritate me
I will literally be sat dressed and ready for an hour waiting for her to say she’s ready and recently by the time it rolls around I’m usually over it and have to really muster up some enthusiasm to even meet up with her
When we’re together we always have a fabulous time though

Wwyd about this? Accept it as a quirk or … what?

I used to have a friend who was always late, anything between 30 to 60 mins. She'd apologize , but then she confessed to actively trying to be late on dates so that she didn't want to show the guys she was very keen. Then I realised she was actually doing it with her female friends too as she just enjoyed it. Made her feel like a bit of a diva having a group of people waiting around for her.

I tried being late, arranging the meet ups a lot earlier, nothing worked...she always managed to arrive later than anybody else. Needless to say I distanced myself from her as we are very different and life's to short to let anyone mess around with your time.

@Fluxcapacitator you'll probably find most of them are. It's really nice when you're someone who prefers to have loose plans to be friends with people who also prefer loose plans like we're planning to go to the park around this time for about his long, hopefully see you there. Much less stressful than worrying you'll be late and make your friend wait because you're fundamentally incapable of regularly getting somewhere on time.

Chronically late people often really struggle with it, hate themselves for it, and wish they could be cured of it. The psychology of it is well-articulated here: waitbutwhy.com/2015/07/why-im-always-late.html

1 in 20 with ADHD go undiagnosed fact! I suspect a lot of people in that article could potentially fall into that category.

www.eehealth.org/blog/2020/03/adhd-adults/

I have a friend with ADHD, who really does try her best and is 10/15 minutes late at most. She lets me know she will be late, and that is something I can deal with.
I get that things like ADHD can make time management difficult, but you can at least text people about where you are at in regards to getting ready etc.
Having ADHD is not an excuse for being rude.

Saying that, I am a doormat and a soft touch, and let people be 2 hours late and I just smile and act like nothing happened. So people keep doing it.

I couldn't stand being left waiting for an hour+

If you're pretty sure you can't make it on time, then be upfront & say so - suggest something where someone isn't wasting their time just waiting for you.

I would obviously make allowances if my friend had a condition that contributed significantly to persistent lateness but I don't have a lot of spare time in my life so if I agree to invest some into meeting a friend, I'd hope that they take steps to try to be there punctually. I wouldn't care about 5-15 mins late but more than that will get frustrating for most people I reckon.

I’m on the planet where drying your hair an hour after you were supposed to meet someone is treating that person badly. If I was an hour late to meet someone I wouldn’t wash my hair. In fact I’d already have called them and cancelled if that’s how late I was going to be. I couldn’t be bothered with standing about for an hour and a half while someone dries their hair and does whatever else they need to do. I don’t have so much free time that I can waste hours of it standing and waiting for someone to show up.

And what if you hadn't managed to wash your hair in 2 weeks and it smells unpleasant? Would you then consider it important to wash before meeting? (Admittedly I have just put it up in a bun in that situation and hoped it wasn't noticeable).

When these threads come up it is amazing how many people seem to think that the late person's only problem is that they are late and they couldn't possibly be battling a million other things.

Yes I could prioritise being on time, and sometimes that makes sense as the priority. But other times it would make me fall behind on something else, perhaps something essential. There is always a cost and I think neurotypical people don't have as high a cost for timekeeping and therefore they assume everyone is the same and it's a choice to prioritise something unimportant, but we aren't all the same.

If you hadn’t managed to wash your hair in two weeks I’d wonder why an hour after you’d agreed to meet me was the ideal time to do so. But I’d presume if this friend is holding down a job she could have washed her hair the night before.

I think people like to make a million excuses but as an adult it’s your job to put things in place. Twisting it up to ‘oh but if she’s NT she might not have washed her hair for two weeks and what is she supposed to do just go out with dirty hair?! What could she have done but wait to wash her hair until after she was supposed to meet you!!’

But the fact is most adults (even those who are NT) are capable of looking at a clock, seeing it’s 3.20 and they were supposed to meet Jane at 3, and realising they don’t have time to wash their hair. If they’re not capable of that then obviously their NT is really quite severe and I imagine they won’t work and will have support, and so the friend would be aware they have this issue.

Or even texting the friend when the realised it was past the meet up time and cancelling. Because if I was in the bath washing my hair at the same time I was supposed to be at a restaurant 5 miles away I’d call and cancel because obviously I’m not going to make it. I think most adults would realise that they are going to be late if they are washing their hair after they were supposed to arrive unless their needs were profound.

I agree. I would also imagine that if she won the lottery jackpot she would somehow manage to pick her winnings up on time! This isn’t just about poor time management, if it were then people like the OPs friend wouldn’t be able to hold down jobs or take part in activities that are important to them. It’s about selfishness and not valuing other people’s time.

it’s pure selfishness and entitlement.

But the same could be said for the person who is sat waiting for their friend to show up. They could also be battling a million things that this just feels like another rejection. Proof that you are just not important enough.

It's just common courtesy. It's not acceptable to routinely be an hour late to meet people. It is a huge waste of that persons time, even if the person who is late doesn't mean it.

If you are only washing your hair after the meet time, then it's very clear you will be very late. Have the decency to let the other person know.

For me, sitting alone waiting for someone to show up would really make me awkward and anxious. Why would my feelings be less important?

And the person you're meeting could have a million other things going on as well.

I'm not neurotypical either by the way, but the fact that you're struggling doesn't mean it's okay to mess your friends around and leave them standing there like lemons.

I had a friend who constantly stood me up because she was running late - and it upset me a lot. I was left feeling upset, embarrassed and like I wasn't good enough because, yet again, I was on time and she hadn't made it and hadn't had the decency to let me know she was running late.

If you're washing your hair at the same time you should be meeting your friend, then you'd know you're running late well in advance and should have the decency to let your friend know so they can either cancel or alter their plans to suit.

What you don't do is just be late and expect other people to accept it because you're struggling or not neuro-typical.
The fact that you're struggling may be a valid reason reason for being late, but it's not a reason to treat your friends like shit.

I had a friend who was always about 30m late. I used to joke I'd buy her a watch with a 30m difference in time on it, so she could always be on time.

In the end we drifted apart socially, although have a nice catch up when we bump into each other.

I'm a good time keeper. It was very irritating even though I knew,.in her case, she was the same with everything.

@Kanaloa

It’s a spectrum. And you keep confusing ND with NT. Maybe do a little more reading around the topic before making assumptions.

I have ADHD and am obsessively early for everything. The majority of lateness is down to people being rude, self centred and entitled. Being on time isn't "a quality" it's essential to being a functioning respectful adult. 10 minutes here and there wouldn't bother me at all but I cannot stand chronic lateness in a person. I had a friend like this and we're no longer friends. It's part of her overall selfish personality.

@Kanaloa

”I’m this, I’m that, I would do this…”

Of course that is your response because you are not neurodiverse *smh (Or maybe you are, who knows 🤷‍♀️). Neurodiverse people do not think the same way as neurotypical people, their brains are wired differently. Many are undiagnosed and don’t have the tools to deal with their quirks.

My post was in the context of neurodiversity and your response screams ignorance.

“I have ADHD and am obsessively early for everything.”

Good for you that you have the tools to do this. Some people don’t. Lateness isn’t just about ADHD, there are other neurodiverse conditions that affect a person’s ability to keep to time. As I’m sure you are fully aware ADHD, like other neurodiverse conditions, is a spectrum. With any disability some are worse than others. Just because you have your situation sorted it doesn’t mean others do. For context I am sure that you have struggled in ways that other neurodiverse people don’t, or does this make you lazy?

I typed NT by mistake. Of course I means ND. And no amount of ‘reading’ I do (presumably online) is going to show a spectrum of ND or NT adults without profound and extreme needs who aren’t aware that washing their hair 30/40 mins after an agreed meeting time means they’ll be late. That’s not an assumption.

I think if this friend had such severe needs due to ND that they couldn’t tell they were late over an hour after the meeting time op would have known and mentioned this. If she holds down a job and functions as an adult she would have been aware that as she dried her hair over an hour after they were supposed to meet that she was late. In real life people simply don’t sit drying their hair when they’re an hour late. As an adult you put measures in place - if your needs are stopping you living a normal life (holding a job etc) you need to seek out help with them. Or at least be honest - yes I can meet at 2 but I’ll probably be 1.5 or 2 hours late, I definitely won’t be there at 2. Then it isn’t impacting on someone else’s life.

My mum's like this (but not to such an extreme). It's not that difficult to manage. All you need to do is decide on average how late they usually are - say 1 hour - then tell them you are meeting at 2pm when in fact it's 3pm. Then don't go until 3pm. Most of the time they will be there around the same time as you if your guess for the average is accurate! The only thing you have to do is make sure you don't arrive there after them (or if you do, apologise profusely) so that they don't think somehow they're arriving early and then take even longer over getting ready next time... 😉
The only trouble with my mum is she's in total denial about being this way!

I'm friends with a lady in her 80's. We book a date a month in advance, and a time. She never misses it and neither do I. She has no mobile phone, just old fashioned keeping to arrangements, as arranged!

Persistent lateness is just pure rudeness and a huge lack of respect. I've had friends like this. They love the drama, the fact they're centre stage when they arrive. They don't give a shit about your feelings. We have ADHD in the family. It's not an excuse for poor, shitty behaviour. The vast majority of people who do this are just crap friends - that's it.

You have two options - lie about the time and tell them to meet an hour (or two) before you actually want them or ditch them.

For me, I ditched them. Just couldn't be bothered with feeling like my time wasn't as valuable as theirs.

@CoastalWave I think the ability to contact people to say you are late means some people make less effort to be on time.

I used to have a friend who would do this to me. She'd arrange to meet at 11, for example, then turn up at half past because she had to do something else first..
And it happened time and time again.
She also would cancel longstanding plans if a better offer came up- including pulling out of a holiday under a week before we were due to go away because another friend had offered something or other that was far more exciting.
We are no longer in touch.

Another friend, waiting a diagnosis for suspected ADD in their fifties was, as a child, constantly late for school, despite living 10 minutes walk away. In adulthood she has got better at timekeeping, as she works f/t including shifts, but does struggle to keep to social arrangements.
She does tend to let me know if she is going to be late, as she knows her time management is poor.

People who are happy to waste my time by making me wait for them on a regular basis are not people I would choose to spend my precious time with.

I realise that some of these people may have great qualities that make them awesome friends in other ways but I can't get paste the wasting my time thing.