15 hrs for 2 yr olds - it’s not compulsory so why am I being pressured ?

[strawberrycustard]

Had a letter through that dd will son be eligible for this. I’m a sahm and quite happy with this and planned to send her when she is 3 to nursery.

However, I’m getting a lot of pressure from Hv especially and one comment from gp.
Dd has some developmental delay, speech delay and a few other issues. She’s happy at home and we go out a lot. I think this is enough but I’m getting told she needs to be in a setting and with early years professionals, apparently they have a way to assess children regularly but i says why can’t the HV do these assessments- what happens with other children not in nursery ?

Dd also a bit overweight as still having a lot of milk in addition to meals (she is quite obsessed and gets upset if not able to have it). Hv is saying nursery will break this cycle.

I asked if the problem possibly could be something like asd surely things like speech therapy etc not nursery would be more helpful. We just don’t know yet what the issues are .

I want to keep her at home, go to the groups we like and follow our own little routine till 3 but I’m getting a lot of pressure I feel like because the offer is there it’s being pushed on me when it’s optional !

I feel like my parenting is being questioned and as if I’m being told nursery is the answer. Dd also has separation anxiety and I don’t think she’s ready yet.

Im not great at asserting myself and not sure what to say to shut this down I’ve been saying we don’t plan to send her till 3 but there’s just so much pressure

It sounds like nursery would benefit your daughter.

My son had bad separation anxiety. He had to go to nursery from 1 because I worked. When I was on maternity leave we also enrolled him in a small preschool at 2 and a half.

He didn't really like nursery but he loved preschool. His anxiety took the form of selective mutism. He could talk fine at home but was unable to speak at all at preschool (despite really enjoying it)

Going to preschool was amazing for him, even with the covid lockdowns. It meant when we went to SALT we had more than just my view of what was happening (which wasn't anything because he could talk to me lol) the SALT team worked with preschool and the SENCO there was AMAZING. She got all referrals in for him and was able to really push to get some additional funding and support for him.

He spoke for the first time 3 weeks before leaving preschool. We all cried (in private, he couldn't see our reaction) and when he started school in September he could talk from day 1!

That early intervention was so useful. It sounds like your daughter might have some additional needs or neuro divergence. Being in the preschool with professionals who can find and push those referrals. Who have experience of this and can work with her to settle her and get additional support in place before she starts school is so valuable. It's what the 2 year funding is there for.

My son just did mornings at pre school and we worked up to the full 15 hours - 5 mornings. It was also term time only so lots of balance.

I'd send her, but perhaps look around for the right setting.

Dd does this with sleeping ??? Is this a thing that can happen if she gets stressed she will then sleep - one day she had 3 naps as kept getting overwhelmed is this shutdown ?

I’ve got two autistic DC and I absolutely agree with this too. Your child is only 2 for heavens sake - there’s absolutely no need to send her to nursery. Nursery does not replace speech therapy and proper assessment. We had a lovely nursery but they’re not medically trained and not qualified to take the place of speech therapy etc.

Spotting autism at such a young age is very hard and I know very few nurseries who would have the expertise to help with this in any way. If you go to Stay and Play sessions your child will have all the benefits of mixing with other child, and the activities without being at “full” nursery.

It’s a lazy answer from HV and GP. If your child is autistic your parenting will be constantly questioned and you’ll have to prove yourself. It’s very frustrating but that’s how the system works. You develop a thick skin and learn to be assertive.

Nursery has become an expected norm - we never used to send our babies to nursery. If you want to then fair enough but it’s ridiculous to pressure you into it, especially as your DD doesn’t seem ready. There are tons of other ways to get the same input and stimulation, and acclimatise her to being around other people.

They might be putting you under pressure because they can see that going to nursery would benefit your daughter and help her with some of her issues. Maybe they think delaying it another year is not in her best interests?

I'm a Specialist SALT. When I worked in early years, I recommended many many children go to nursery. I can't think of any who didn't benefit in many different ways. This recommendation is absolutely not to save money but to benefit your dd.

Your dd will gain much more from 15 hours in nursery than 1hr once a week of private or nhs SLT/OT. In fact, nursery will not only benefit her ability to understand, listen and language development but will also help her other areas of delay, which sound global - sensory, fine and gross motor control. The staff are trained to improve all these areas and activities will be designed and tailored to meet her needs. You would need to do many hours of background reading and learning in order to fulfil at home what nursery can offer.

As someone upthread suggested, it is sometimes difficult to ascertain whether a child's delays are due to lack of experience or something more fundamental. The nursery can help to assess this and then refer her to where she needs to be so she can benefit from early and ongoing support if this is required.

Please give it a go.

In the gentlest possible way @strawberrycustard, to get a diagnosis and appropriate support if needed your dd is going to have to fail low level interventions and for this to be corroborated by people who meet her in a professional capacity. There is an argument to have these things in place as soon as possible because it’s so much harder on the child as they get older to have to go through that when their self-awareness and comprehension is so much more acute.

On the point of a professional witness to the behaviours and difficulties you describe, as you’re choosing to keep her at home it may be worth compiling video evidence if you can and you feel you have to justify your choices. You’ll be able to convey what you’re trying to tell them much more clearly.

Don't forget if you decide to try nursery it doesn't have to be the full 15 hours a week - think this is term time anyway? So you could put your DC in for a half day a couple of times a week. A friend is doing this with her DC who (mostly due to COVID and the inability to mix when they were smaller) suffer from separation anxiety and delayed speech. The DC is thriving, though I suspect that any more time away from Mum would have been more of a problem than a help.

I think your best arguement is that you're not planning on sending her to nursery until you're able to send her to one you are happy with. This so happens to be the one that she can attend from 3.
I'm not sure why so many people seem to think nursery will help with all of this. Nurseries are so overwhelmed, ratios are being slashed and it's very likely your child will be looked after a overwhelmed or inexperienced employee.
In an ideal world yes nursery would be brilliant. If she would be in a nursery receiving speech therapy and getting appropriate referrals done in time for reception but that's not going to happen unless you hit the nursery jackpot. Most nurseries at that age range will just say she'll grow out of it and blame you for late integration. You can never win.
I would suggest you try to find out your local early years speech therapy provision. It's often easier to access this than the school age one.

The hv said the requirement is to have the full 15 hours as the places for 2 year olds are for specific reasons so it has to be fully attended (3 hours each morning or aft)

We got the offer due to financial reasons not directly due to dd difficulties- it had cropped up as hv had asked what the plans were we said 3 , she said as we qualified for healthy start we would also get the 15 hrs and we got an eligibility letter a week later

Glue ear can cause problems hearing speech sounds in children and can cause speech delay. The child may be able to hear other types of sounds OK.

Definitely worth asking HV for a referral to audiology - SaLT normally want children referred to them to have their hearing checked anyway.

Op you do realise the hv service is optional and unnecessary, you can just use your GP for any issues.

Do what you feel is right for your child.

Yes, they do, and often, rightly so. Mum doesn't always know best, being completely honest. You seem closed off to ideas that don't fit the norm of what you expected to do, what you planned when you had your child. Life doesn't always go as we planned and your child has additional needs. Everything you planned and thought would happen in these pre school years might need to change.

Its hard, and relentless, I am 20 years further down the line than you with a child with more severe needs and spending much of my time begging for help and input and can honestly say you will both be better off long term if you are open minded to the professionals and grab any help you are offered.

The 2 year old room of a nursery with trained specialists, which is what our Early Years Practitioners are, is in no way comparable to a toddler group. Your daughter has seperation anxiety but has never been left with anyone else- the nursery will work with you. no one is saying you have to go from zero to 15 hours in the space of a week, or that you can't have a slow process of introducing the new setting.

You are Mum, listen to your own instincts, unfortunately not everyone is able to keep their DC with them and not send them to nursery and therefore the shift towards being sent to nursery at a very very young age is now just seen to be the norm. Do not be pressured to send her yet. Yes nursery gives children experiences but so do you as Mum! Plenty of time for her to attend at 3. Nursery also is not the same experience as one to one care from a primary caregiver, it just isn't, no matter what people believe. Keep her with you until she turns 3, there is a big shift in development from aged 2 until 3. It's not as if you are planning on keeping her at home, you've said yourself you take her out, give her different experiences etc etc.

Please trust your instincts and don't be pressurised into sending her if you don't feel she's ready. There's a general obsession in current times with putting children in childcare settings as soon as possible, encouraging them to be independent from parents as quickly as possible, and accelerating all areas of development as quickly as possible. I say this as a parent of a child with no delays in development, who was made to feel (by Health Visitor and others in general) that I was doing him a huge disservice by not putting him in a setting - the pressure started from when he was about one year old. I was made to feel that he would have no social skills, that he would barely learn to talk, that he would be extremely clingy with me and that we'd never be able to toilet train him - none of which turned out to be true.

I waited until he was 4 to start him at nursery/preschool (only two mornings a week) - the first drop off was awful, but after that he was completely fine, because he was truly ready. I'm certain it would have been a much longer and more distressing process when he was younger. He's happy and settled there, and I'm glad he had the extra time at home with me/ his dad (we both work long days and covered the childcare between us - I'm fully aware that not everyone has this option).

I realise that this is a different scenario because there weren't any concerns about his development, but I just wanted to illustrate that there's a broad pressure to put very young children in settings and a strange discomfort with any parent who chooses not to. She's still very little, and you know her best. Good luck.

YESS!! No idea how happy I am seeing another SLT on Mumsnet!

Completely agree with everything said here.
You might be surprised at how well your DD takes to being at nursery. A lot of parents I've worked with worried about how their child would take to nursery for the first time and they were absolutely fine.
Has DD had any time away from you since she was born (i.e. staying with a family member for the day or even overnight)? If so, she's got some (albeit, an abstract) experience and understanding of "Mummy's coming back."
As others have said, go and have stay and play sessions as well.

Nursery is NOT a cheaper option than SLT sessions. Let's say you did get SLT sessions - maybe half an hour to an hour once a week (if you're lucky depending on waiting lists etc...unless you go private)...it's not the same as 15 hours a week in nursery, not only working on a speech/language delay, but spending time with and playing with other children her own age, meeting other adults who are trained to observe children and their development and make a referral to SALT if they have any concerns. SLT work very closely with nurseries and a lot of the input will come from you as the parent and the nursery as you both spend the most time with your DD.

I would add that it takes me ears sometimes to get a full diagnosis because so many conditions overlap. Having her in the education system earlier means that she has a better chance of getting into the right school for her for reception. My dd started out with a very similar profile of delays to your dd but not diagnosis, she was diagnosed with dyspraxia at 2.5 then asd at 2 and 8 months by the school systems dr/specialist person. If I had kept her at home she would not have been diagnosed until later because she needed to be in a different setting to home to display fully her issues (she's now at university, please don't think its necessarily going to mean a bad diagnosis because it's early!)

OP I've not read the full thread but would a childminder who accepts early years funding be a better option?

My ds didn't have any developmental delays and went to nursery; but started going to a childminder in the summer holidays before school and I found a massive improvement in his speaking and vocabulary from being with older children rather than just his peer age group.

I ditched my HV. She was useless. Missed my sons tongue tie despite telling me she was a tongue tie expert and then pressured me to sleep train - no thank you. You don’t have to see your HV if you don’t want to. Of course, the extra support might be good if you want an assessment, but your GP is there for that.

and you don’t have to listen to anyone. It’s advice. If you struggle just tell them ‘Thank you for the recommendation’ and shut the conversation down.

my son isn’t in any kind of nursery or okay school and he’s thriving. He gets one to one time with me all day and he’s doing really well. He socialises with other children when we do things and will happily leave me to play when he feels like it. If you don’t think your child is ready that’s your choice. However if you have concerns and feel this may be beneficial after listening to the various posters on the thread the you could split it into a few mornings/afternoons instead. Don’t let people bully you into doing what you don’t feel is best for your child - people will always have an opinion on your child, but you need to do what you feel is best for you both. X

I've read the thread and your posts OP and I think you need to sit down and come up with an approach that will help your DD if you're not planning on sending her to nursery until she is three.

Firstly, you have to address the separation anxiety. There won't be as much of a difference as some would make out when you drop your DD off to nursery when they are 2 or 3 if you haven't dealt with this. You'll have the tears, crying, sobbing for mummy etc. if you haven't dealt with it.

Next, look at the situations, with impartial eyes (this will be difficult as you're her mother and you will have some feelings one way or the other) about how your DD deals with stressors.

Next, deal with interaction and speech with others. Nursery does this in a fun safe environment and can be a starting point to flag up any issues that any other agencies may need to know about in due course. If these are flagged at age 3, just think about how many may have joined the waiting list for assessments during the time she was 2 going on 3. Will the waiting list have grown? Will she have improved/worsen in her verbal skills?

Nobody is forcing you to do anything but at the moment, it would read as though you are making these decisions for you and what you want rather than taking the advice (and it is just advice) from your HV who has experience of seeing multiple children and would have first hand experience of seeing them thrive in a nursery environment.

It's only 15 hours per week. I'd give it a shot and if it doesn't work out when your DD is 2, can you resume when she turns 3?

OP I think you've had an unfairly tough time on here. But on the plus side if you can assert yourself on here you can definitely do it with the HV!

Hi OP, I haven't read every reply yet, but I am going to go against the grain here. You have actually told us very little about your child's delays so we don't know how far behind she is and can't really make any assumptions there. You are best placed here to know that and you already seem confident in the face that one to one care with you is in her best interest at the moment, so I am going to assume that is the case.

I think if you want to assert yourself in discussions with the HV you just need a solid plan in place for her to address her needs. Devise a routine for the week to develop her skills, fine and gross motor, speach and language, social etc. Fine tune her games, activities and days out to encourage her where she needs it most.

Look into getting a few good books to help you monitor where she is should be. Mary Sheridans from birth to five years is a good start. Educate yourself as best you can on child development and provide as enriching environment as you can for her. Once you have all this in place I think you will have the confidence to deal with the HV and talk with more authority about the needs and progress of your daughter. Best of luck to you both.

So what's the point in posting if you're fixed on your outcome?

You've asked whether you should follow HV advice and take up free nursery hours, 6 months before you'd planned for your developmentally delayed DD. The vast majority of people have said give it a go and given lots of examples of how it really helped their DC.

You say 'No - I know my daughter' - what's the point of posting?

No - in my OP I asked for advice how to get across to the HV that I don’t want to send dd at 2

I asked how I could articulate this

The right time to enter nursery is mainly habitual and cultural question. Where it is a standard that very young children go to the nursery, it is seen as beneficial for them, where the standard is going later, it is seen as beneficial to stay home (I am elsewhere in EU , and you'd be supported in keeping her home here and just do activities as you are already doing).

The ideas here in thread that you should prove to someone that your activities are beneficial enough sounds strange. You are the parent, your HV is offering you the standard option in your region. And you don't have to send her to the nursery just to prove someone on the internet, that you don't have separation issues yourself.

I suppose you can have a look at the nursery in question and see, whether you see the value in it or not, whether you want to give it a try or not.
However, it sound to me that you have selected a nursery which you want to use in a years time, so working with your DD to prepar her to enter there next year sounds generally sensible.

The only point are the targeted therapies - some children really start to catch up faster when they "have to " - spend time without parent with other children. I suppose you can try to simulate it in some activities, whether regular group where you might be around, but not directly involved, would help or not.