Children want to live with their dad, I’m devastated

[HawaiiCount]

3 DC. Split with their father when they were little, now early/mid/late teens.

Initially we did the every other week/weekend thing. Ex re-married 6 years ago and we’ve done 50/50 since. No maintenance either way.

Our household incomes are poles apart. He and his wife are very wealthy. I work full time but still eligible for universal credit. Very different houses, they share bedrooms at mine, no foreign holidays, expected to do chores, cook dinner etc.

Older teen started staying at their dads more often around 6 months ago. Two younger teens have now said they want to move to their fathers and come to mine every second weekend.

Im devastated. I hid it when we were discussing and said I’d think about it and needed some time to think how that would work. The second they left I broke down. These are my babies, I grew them from scratch, I never thought I would be in a position where my children don’t live with me and I see them twice a month. I never wanted any of this, the reason we split is because of his affair, karma is bullshit, he’s remarried, wealthy and now has our children. I have nothing.

I want to be fair to the kids and support what they need but my heart is broken

Your daughter is young enough to not have had her first period yet? Is she 15 and on the late side to start, or does this mean she's 12 or 13 years old?

If the latter, I think that's too young to be left to decide for herself where to live. I would say no, it's 50/50 until age 16, at which time you'll respect their decisions about where they want to live. And I wouldn't protect them from the fact that you're devastated. It's not manipulation, it's a natural reaction and the truth. I think it would be damaging to hide it from them.

I am so sorry you are going through this OP. If they are in their teens I suppose it would be a matter of time before they would possibly move out anyway. If you could find it in your heart , maybe you should let them trial staying with their dad. Who knows, when the novelty wears out they might change their minds. I suspect if you say no now, they will forever throw it back at you at chore time or if/when there is a disagreement between you. Try and remember they are individuals in their own right and you have to let them go oneday. Its sad but inevitable.

Oh OP, I just read your updates. My heart is breaking for you. I'm just so sorry.xx

Just here to give you a big big hug, your post has really touched me and I feel very sad for you. Be strong, you can survive this although it will be tough.

I would have a really honest conversation with them about how you feel about this. If they still want to go then so be it, but they need to consider how it impacts you too.

I’m so sorry, OP.

Kids can be so shallow and thoughtless.

They’ll come back to you in time.

Im devastated. I hid it when we were discussing and said I’d think about it and needed some time to think how that would work. The second they left I broke down. These are my babies, I grew them from scratch, I never thought I would be in a position where my children don’t live with me and I see them twice a month. I never wanted any of this, the reason we split is because of his affair, karma is bullshit, he’s remarried, wealthy and now has our children. I have nothing.

I want to be fair to the kids and support what they need but my heart is broken

I am so sorry, and I don’t blame you for feeling heartbroken. Would it help to realise this is just typical teen behaviour - wanting the greener grass and the easy life, long before they know about the reality of care and responsibility around relationships. What I mean to suggest is that you try not to take it personally.

I would question whether the younger teen should be moving away from you in this way. Why would it be on their best interest to lose so much contact with their mother? Have you looked into this.

I reckon your ex is smarmy, selfish and manipulative. He could have said to them, no this cannot happen. If he cared enough, especially about his youngest, he might himself be concerned about them moving away from the comfort of their mother.

I feel so so much for you
op I really do
i am a single parent and my heart goes out to you

similar set up here but thankfully children do realise that “easier” doesn’t mean “better” and I hope yours come to see that too.

just always make abundantly clear that your door is not just always open but WIDE open for them

do you have a partner?

Oh come on

i am HUGELY sympathetic to the op

But why can’t the ex think he is a good enough father to be the RP to a daughter?

Good advice from jellybean.

Children like to be told how important they are to you. Their father is thinking about what is best for him and not for them. Spell it out to them, how developing personal responsibility/doing chores, is in their own interest. Part of your job is to develop good character in them and if they are old enough to have agency, they are old enough to consider which is the best way to behave and to include everyone's happiness. Tell them how much you love them and how your interest is in what is best for them and not you. Renegotiate, outline what they are giving up at your home. I'm not religious but there's a parable in the bible where two women are claiming to be the mother of a baby, they go to the wise counsel who says "tear the child in two". The real mother says "no, she can have it". The parable is that the true parent has the foremost best interest of the child. Outline what you cannot give them and what you can. Afterall, if their father wants them to have more material comfort, he can give them that, without demanding quid pro quo. Also if they get funding for university through living with you, if he is so wealthy, he can top that up and give them more financial viability. Will he only give, if he gets? He is prepared to harm them by parting them from their mother for the benefit of his new wife. Is she the other woman? They are putting their needs before those of your children.

but what happens when DD gets her first period? When older DD breaks up with her boyfriend, when DS needs a hug.

You’re not going anywhere though - they can still come to you got all of those things.

You’ll probably have a much closer relationship as you won’t have to deal with all of the mundane bits and nagging that comes with parenting.

I get you’re upset. But you are only thinking about yourself and you need to be thinking about what’s best for them and what they want.

Tell them you’re sad to see them go but they’ll still be back EOW and they can come back whenever whether it’s for 1 extra night, for weeks or for much longer.
You’ll probably find that once the novelty wears off after a few months they’ll be wanting to come back anyway.

I have not rtft
Have you taken any legal advice OP, including about what has been happening with maintenance?

I agree with the poster who said you should have broken down.
I'm also not a believer in hiding emotion.

I think when they actually leave you should say, look,your dad gave me a heads up about this and not to get emotional, however I want you to know I did cry and I am upset.
I'm deeply upset and when you have children no one envisages not living with those children.
However , I love you,I respect your decision, I hope you will visit me and my door is always open and if you change your minds that's fine Also.

That's really sad but hopefully you will still see a lot of them.

I get the impression you and ex are quite amicable? And also ok with his wife?

Legal advice on what?

How long were you married for?
and did you give up work for any time?
i receive spousal maintenance from my very wealthy ex, and that helps

I agree with the poster who said you should have broken down.
I'm also not a believer in hiding emotion.

@Summerwhereareyou

i am going to take a punt… you aren’t a single parent are you?

@endofthelinefinally

As long as your DC know that you love them, you will miss them, but you want them to be happy and they can come home any time, that is really the best you can do. They will grow up and realise how much you have done for them, even if not until they have children of their own.
Now is your time to develop hobbies and friendships of your own.
Let their dad take some responsibility and spend his money. He might learn something from this too.
^^
THIS

If you really love your kids then the day will come when you need to let them go.
It may have come sooner than than you thought but it happens to us all
Empty nest syndrome is awful.
But it's a time to focus on you.
Do all the things you've been putting off.
They are only a few miles away.
It will get better

It may not be what they expect when they actually live there.

Make you they absolutely know you'll miss them and they always have a home with you.

And once they live with DF full time they may well find they have chores etc to do. Full time living is not in any way the same as a few days. Once they at yours a few days Im sure they won't have chores to do.

Oh don’t go down the “chores build character route”

I was insanely spoilt at home during my very privileged childhood. I went to university and I could barely pour myself a cowl of cereal.

20 years later, successful professional single mother of two - renowned for her military organisation and my home is laughably organised and clean!

in any event, that kind of thought will just make teens inwardly groan

Both parents may be perfectly capable parents but a good parent encourages the relationship with the other good parent. They realise how important that is whether it’s mother or father.

Having their own room, more money and eating out more are in no way good enough reasons to lose the closeness that comes with seeing a parent more often that 2 days in every 14. Their father is not acting in the children’s best interest by allowing this to happen. The children, especially the younger two are too young to realise the potential longer term consequences of this. It’s just really irresponsible on their dads part.

But there is not the slightest whiff of any accusation that he doesn’t encourage the relationship with the mother

he just parents differently. Like my parents.

and like my ex and I parent differently. He is very relaxed and no chores. Does it annoy me a little? Yes! But would I say that he is sabotaging my relationship with ym children because I do ask them to do chores? No!

I'm sorry OP, that's a heartbreaking thing to face. I'd definitely be pushing for mid-week, even just dinner. Start a dialogue, tell them that you will miss them and want to work together to make sure you all see each other more than EOW. Midweek sleepover, dinners, after school afternoon tea in a cafe, FaceTime regularly, whatever works. Stay close. Thinking as a teenager does I can see the appeal, less rules, more stuff. In the longer term those things will matter a lot less, but that doesn't make the time now less heartbreaking.

Some people will judge you, always. Others won't. If you told me your teens preferred the less rules and more stuff their father could provide I would think that was heartbreaking, not that you were an awful mum Even without that I'd have to know a lot lot more about the situation to ascribe any value judgements to it. There will always be people who judge. One reason for this can be people like to believe they can stop bad outcomes like this from happening. It's cognitively easier if we can assign blame and decide that the bad thing can't happen to us because we do/don't do XYZ, or because we're a better person/parent/wife then the person that happened too. It's harder to accept that you could be there for your DC everyday, do the lions share of everything, be their rock, raise them with a good work ethic and lots of support and still have them turn around and decide to live with their Dad and only see them EOW.

I am really sorry OP, and not surprised you are angry. They’ll continue to love you like mad, but it might a while for them to fully realise all the sacrifices you made for them. But they will. The unfairness of the disparity of your financial situations and what that means will also hit them eventually.

I said this before, but your updates strengthen this point - there is clear a huge gulf in your financial situations. The fact you’ve been paying half is very unfair, and I’m guessing you didn’t get a great deal when you split up.

So I really do think you need to meet your ex for coffee (neutral space) and say ‘you know I don’t want this, but I understand the kids POV. However you are so much richer financially I would appreciate it if you’d take that over. I have very little for my future and I want not to be a burden on them. Lay it on thick and follow up with an email. He’s feeling guilty right now so will likely agree. This doesn’t need to be a secret because it’s so obviously fair - you can explain it to your eldest in teen friendly terms if you want.

Beyond this, try (I know it’s not easy) not to think about it as them being deliberately stolen from you. I don’t think your ex handled it well, and it sounds he wasn’t up to much when they were little, but I’d imagine this is just about the fact he loves them. I don’t think there’s anything you could or should have done about their step mum being in their lives - but remember even close step mums are like aunts, not mums.

Also try (again I know it’s not easy) to worry about what other people think. It’s common for older kids especially to live with their dads - and remember of course they are still part of the time with you.

As a PP said, this is like the empty nest stage come a bit early. When you can try and approach it like that and build up the things you need. You will still absolutely have the kids.