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Ukraine Invasion: Part 27

990 replies

MagicFox · 03/06/2022 13:48

27th thread, thanks for the continued company and analysis all

OP posts:
Thread gallery
52
RedToothBrush · 05/06/2022 16:45

blueshoes · 05/06/2022 16:39

This is worrying. I hope they brought enough provisions, including food and water Shock and ideally medicines for those trapped there. I hope they make it past the filtration centres again. What if Russia does not want them to go back to Russia to tell others of what they have seen?

People will die of thirst if they need to queue for 2 days to get drinking water. I cannot imagine what old people alone and trapped in their homes will do.

I have no idea. Relative is exceptionally worried and upset. They think family member who is returning is stupid and they are worried about all of the above and whether they may be trapped into forced labour there. They have tried to talk them out of it.

ScrollingLeaves · 05/06/2022 17:00

@RedToothBrush 16:34

re: the BBC article you posted:
The communities department says people on both family and sponsorship visas have access to the same services as UK nationals, and councils are receiving £10,500 in funding for each arrival under the sponsorship scheme.

I wonder how local authorities are using this? Could some be used for fare passes as well as extra school and NHS services?

Ijsbear · 05/06/2022 17:05

Im afraid that the old and disabled and unprotected very young people in Mariupol have probably already died by now, unless they had both help and luck.

Ijsbear · 05/06/2022 17:10

Unconfirmed reports of another Major General's death Tim White
@TWMCLtd
·
8m
+1 General for #Ukraine.

Yet another senior officer of #Russia's army has been killed in the war.

Major General Roman Kutuzov (call sign "Fog") died in fighting in near #Popasna in #Luhansk region

Ijsbear · 05/06/2022 17:20

Now confirmed.

blueshoes · 05/06/2022 17:27

Ijsbear · 05/06/2022 17:05

Im afraid that the old and disabled and unprotected very young people in Mariupol have probably already died by now, unless they had both help and luck.

Sad
RedToothBrush · 05/06/2022 17:54

ScrollingLeaves · 05/06/2022 17:00

@RedToothBrush 16:34

re: the BBC article you posted:
The communities department says people on both family and sponsorship visas have access to the same services as UK nationals, and councils are receiving £10,500 in funding for each arrival under the sponsorship scheme.

I wonder how local authorities are using this? Could some be used for fare passes as well as extra school and NHS services?

In our area they are apparently trying to sort bus passes but they haven't managed to confirm it yet. I believe they are also trying to spend it on availability of ESOL classes. The refugee worker wasn't sure what else the money would go on but until they got the money they weren't willing to confirm too much. As it stands, I don't believe the money has come through.

RedToothBrush · 05/06/2022 17:56

Im also yet to speak to a host who has seen sight of their £350...

I have spoken to people with guests of upwards of 5 months.

RedToothBrush · 05/06/2022 17:56

5 weeks not months.

ScrollingLeaves · 05/06/2022 18:03

@BewareTheLibrarians · Today 15:34
.*This article has a good explanation of “lived density”, which I think is probably the figure that’s more helpful as it’s the population density of only the 1km areas that have people living in them (ie aren’t forests, mountains, ice fields, farmland, other uninhabitable land). England comes out at number 6 in Europe, Wales and Scotland much lower.•

theconversation.com/amp/think-your-country-is-crowded-these-maps-reveal-the-truth-about-population-density-across-europe-90345

Your point about infrastructure is also really important. It’s tempting to think that asylum seekers could be moved to less populated areas, but with that comes the lack of services that they need. I have no idea what the answer is sadly.

Those charts and analysis of lived density are fascinating and informative. For example, I
had never realised before that there is a banana shape of lived density stretching from the NE U.K. down into Italy. Also, you can see there is a vast amount of empty space but it is no use without urban infrastructure. One would need to build more cities like they did in the US but it must be difficult if they do not come about organically.

BewareTheLibrarians · Today 16:14

ScrollingLeaves · 05/06/2022 18:15

@BewareTheLibrarians · Today 16:14
Thank you for the Washington post article about Ukraine being well prepared in the information war against Russia.

@RedToothBrush · Today 17:54
Councils must be very wary of spending money before they’ve received it.

and

It must be causing dreadful difficulties and even debt if already hard-pressed families have not been receiving any the £350 p.m.

RedToothBrush · 05/06/2022 18:20

Hromadske int AT hromadske
The wife of Azov commander Denys Prokopenko, Kateryna, told AT ukrpravda_news that the conditions in which the defenders of Mariupol are being held are satisfactory & all the fighters are waiting for an exchange. However, the remand prison is overcrowded & food needs to be improved

Ijsbear · 05/06/2022 18:57

Im cautious of believing good news from people whose loved ones are in Russian hands, but if true that is good!

In potentially more good news

WarMonitor🇺🇦
@WarMonitor3
·
31m
Severodonetsk is reportedly 80 percent liberated.

(It seems to be important that Lysychansk is also kept free)

Natsku · 05/06/2022 18:58

RedToothBrush · 05/06/2022 16:19

I know that some Ukrainians who had left for Russia are returning to Mariupol to see whats left despite what family members have told them. Theyve said, 'i shall be out of touch for 8 days whilst I go. I am going with friends'. Relative is unimpressed and v worried.

I can't understand why anyone would choose to go back there right now. I hope they manage to go and get back again safely.

RedToothBrush · 05/06/2022 19:04

ScrollingLeaves · 05/06/2022 18:15

@BewareTheLibrarians · Today 16:14
Thank you for the Washington post article about Ukraine being well prepared in the information war against Russia.

@RedToothBrush · Today 17:54
Councils must be very wary of spending money before they’ve received it.

and

It must be causing dreadful difficulties and even debt if already hard-pressed families have not been receiving any the £350 p.m.

I think its appalling that only those households on the Homes for Ukraine scheme get the £350 scheme. Those on the family sponsorship scheme get fuck all. And those on the family scheme are under pressure to house family.

We've one friend desparately trying to get 3 family members out. He's having a nightmare with it. And will have financial pressure if he does manage it. He fortunate in that he does have a big fuck off house he's doing up but supporting 3 extra people if still gonna be tough on what he earns.

Many of those on the Homes for Ukraine scheme I have spoken to have spent a small fortune before their guests arrived (making sure they have things like beds and bedding or gas safety certificates). Then, because Ukrainians get only £200 per person emergency money when they arrive (its supposed to be within 48 hours of arrival - in many cases its not) until they get Universal Credit payments (6 to 8 weeks after theyve submitted their application - which naturally doesn't tend to be on the day of arrival...), hosts are in a position where they have to feed their guests even though they aren't supposed to either out of sheer necessity or because they feel they have a moral obligation to.

I have also spoken to hosts who have sent their guests to the foodbank already because they their Ukrainians have no money and the host is (quite frankly stubbornly in the case I know about as they damn well can afford it) refusing to help feed them.

I am collecting some fascinating and heartbreaking stories...

... In terms of shared culture, finding out yesterday with the Jubilee Concert that Craig David made it to Ukraine's airwaves tells the story in a nutshell for me. Having just little things like this to talk about is surprisingly important to biilding relationships.

RedToothBrush · 05/06/2022 19:17

Bill Browder AT billbrowder
Bulgaria, North Macedonia and Montenegro all closed their airspace to Russian foreign minister Lavrov’s jet to prevent him from visiting Serbia tomorrow. A slap in the face for that evil murderer
https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/14827591

RedToothBrush · 05/06/2022 19:28

Michael Weiss AT michealdweiss
Been a bit cautious tweeting about Ukraine’s gains in Sieverodonetsk, but all indications now suggest the defenders allowed the Russian to draw in beyond their capacity and launched a well-executed counteroffensive resulting in a recapture of 20-30% of the city.

minsmum · 05/06/2022 20:13

They are saying on Twitter that Kututzov's position was leaked, presumably by Russian soldiers

minsmum · 05/06/2022 20:22

mobile.twitter.com/lilygrutcher/status/1533464761047912448 I don't know if anyone reported this the commander of the 29th Russian army reported killed on 2/3rd of June

Ijsbear · 05/06/2022 20:32

One hopes it is accurate !

Igotjelly · 05/06/2022 20:43

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-putin-weapons-latest-b2094360.html

He really is full of bullshit isn’t he. This morning it was all ‘we’ll hit targets we haven’t hit before’ and now it’s ‘well nothing has changed’ - make your fucking mind up pal!

blueshoes · 05/06/2022 21:37

Igotjelly · 05/06/2022 20:43

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-putin-weapons-latest-b2094360.html

He really is full of bullshit isn’t he. This morning it was all ‘we’ll hit targets we haven’t hit before’ and now it’s ‘well nothing has changed’ - make your fucking mind up pal!

It must be hard to be Putin and keep on top of all the lies you tell to all your different audiences from moment to the next who apparently never compare notes.

Ijsbear · 05/06/2022 21:46

wartranslated.com/russian-sentiment-towards-the-war-in-ukraine-is-changing/

this guy translates intercepted chat between soldiers but he also observes and now and then comments on trends he sees. Far as I can see he's not hasty in his conclusions.

blueshoes · 05/06/2022 22:14

Ijsbear · 05/06/2022 21:46

wartranslated.com/russian-sentiment-towards-the-war-in-ukraine-is-changing/

this guy translates intercepted chat between soldiers but he also observes and now and then comments on trends he sees. Far as I can see he's not hasty in his conclusions.

Thanks for the link. 100 days must be a watershed. It makes sense that it is getting more difficult for the Russian soldiers on the front line who were initially fired up on rhetoric to kid themselves that this war is going to end in victory soon. It is beginning to dawn on more and more of them that this shit show is for a long bloody haul.

TargusEasting · 05/06/2022 22:18

Ijsbear · 05/06/2022 15:47

Germany has promised far more than I realised. Hopefully what has been promised will be delivered. They haven't done well PR wise so far.

Germany's contribution is not being picked up commensurately in the British press I believe. This Wikipedia article seems to be fairly accurate;

List of foreign aid to Ukraine 2022: Military, Financial & Humanitarian.

Note that as it has been expanded upon, more information about support has been added in the period from 2014. There are some interesting items here, such as the UK's funding of £25m liquidity to pay for soldiers' salaries and Wizz Air's provision of 100,000 free short range tickets for refugees. The low gratuities of some wealthy nations is also a bit of an eye-opener.