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Ukraine Invasion: Part 27

990 replies

MagicFox · 03/06/2022 13:48

27th thread, thanks for the continued company and analysis all

OP posts:
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52
ScrollingLeaves · 10/06/2022 19:36

@notimagain @TargusEasting and the other people on here who understand military information, I wonder if you have seen this?

It is also interesting for what he says about the importance of synergy at the end.

Address by Minister of Defense of Ukraine Oleksii Reznikov | Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine

www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/zvernennya-ministra-oboroni-oleksiya-ryeznikova9062022

ScrollingLeaves · 10/06/2022 19:44

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This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

LoveLarry · 10/06/2022 19:50

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 10/06/2022 18:14

Yes Ben Wallace said Ukraine's defence minister was trendy.

Oh.

Igotjelly · 10/06/2022 20:29

Related to this is the Congressional hearings into Jan 6th. They could significantly impact voting in the mid-terms.@MagicFox

HappyWinter · 10/06/2022 21:14

Ukraine are amazing to have managed to sow 93% of planned spring crops in the middle of a war.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61726733

20:24
Ukraine sows 93% of planned spring crops, government says

Ukraine has sown 13.4 million hectares with key agricultural crops this spring, which is 93% of its target for the season, the Interfax-Ukraine news agency reports, citing the Ministry of Agrarian Policy and Food.

As we've been reporting regularly in recent days, Ukraine is one of the world's key food producers and there have been fears disruption to its industry could affect people around the world, with the UN among those warning of the danger of widespread hunger.

But Interfax reports that farmers have been able to sow more than 90% of the planned spring target for several main crops, including sunflowers, corn, barley, oats and potatoes, while it has met its target for spring wheat.

Harvesting of winter crops in some regions is expected to begin next week, it says.

Earlier, Rostyslav Shurma, a deputy head of the President's Office, said Ukraine's goal in 2022 was to harvest at least 70% of last year's volumes.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/06/2022 21:16

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Ijsbear · 10/06/2022 21:20

Bad news seems to be coming from Seiveredonetsk, it seems to be held by the Russians now. Not confirmed but coming from several directions.

This good news is not confirmed

Flash
@Flash43191300
·
23m
⚡️Two Russian generals were killed in Stara Zburivka, Kherson region — Oleksii Arestovych reports. One from the army and another from the FSB.

According to Arestovych, one of the killed generals was responsible for the organization of the referendum in the Kherson region.

MissConductUS · 10/06/2022 21:46

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but the Telegraph has been doing a podcast called Ukraine: The Latest and I've found it very good and timely. One of the correspondents on it is a former British Army officer and he's very good at explaining what's going on on the front lines.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/06/2022 21:51

@MagicFox MagicFox · Today 19:29
I genuinely think this is something to worry about. It's really important what happens in the US elections.

juliadavis
"This compilation of clips explains why the Russians think they're winning and don't need to negotiate. Spoiler: they're waiting for the GOP to prevail in midterms and abandon Ukraine. They're also encouraged by our media coverage—especially Tucker Carlson."

twitter.com/juliadavisnews/status/1534759968628518914?s=21&t=XvM-XXrDnCv5SfxJ3OshrA

Thank you MagicFox. It is very worrying.
The US is a divided country really. On Channel 4 tonight they were showing the siege of the Capitol in a hearing that has been taking place about it. Matt Frei was saying that if they cannot accept an election proven to have been legal there is no democracy in America. One Republican senator was particularly aggressive in response. I think MF actually mentioned that there could be the seeds of civil war there.

In that Russian video there it was just as we thought - they know full well the effects of what Kissinger said, the knawing worms from the NYT articles, The Washington Post and the Daily telegraph (I didn’t realise rhe DT was one.) Many Americans people are already making those very remarks which that Russian predicts they will if the Republicans win.

HappyWinter · 10/06/2022 22:01

It is worrying, I'm hoping that it won't happen.

Trump’s forces are preparing for the next storming of the Capitol. This time, they plan to win
Jonathan Freedland

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/10/donald-trump-storming-capitol-democracy-6-january

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2022 22:04

https://twitter.com/alexdalsbaek/status/1534898147377483777
This thread is about Mariupol. It is in French but I have copied the translation below. It is worth looking at because it includes recent photos / video from inside occupied Mariupol.

Alexandra Dalsbaek AT AlexDalsbaek
We visited one of the cemeteries in Mariupol last week. We saw there thousands of recent graves, surmounted by a number. On this side of the cemetery the numbers went beyond 3000

On most tombs there is only a number written in felt-tip pen and which is already being erased. Who are 768? 739? 442? 834? How did these inhabitants of Mariupol die? Will they be identified? Where are their relatives? Did they survive?

Sometimes we can read a name and a first name like that of Janna Dozorets, number 1423, born in 1957 and died in Mariupol on April 14, 2022.

In another neighborhood, three mass graves were dug in the city's central cemetery. One of them is empty. A resident of Mariupol whom we met in front of an improvised morgue in a former fruit and vegetable depot wanted to accompany us there.

On March 16, Valéria and her family were preparing to flee Mariupol, but a mine fell on their house and killed her 32-year-old husband in front of her and their 9-year-old daughter. Valéria's father, helped by neighbors, transported his son-in-law's body under fire

- to one of these mass graves dug according to Valéria from 24/02. The young woman who had taken refuge in Rostov had returned to Mariupol to convince the "new authorities" to have her husband's body exhumed and buried with dignity, but was told that she had to -

- first find the relatives of all the people buried in this mass grave, so that each of the bodies is identified, then buried separately. But how do you find loved ones who may be dead or gone? Valéria's husband lies under 8 body levels.

This woman, left. passes by the cemetery every day in the hope of finding people responsible for exhuming the people buried here. The body of her 16-year-old grandson is in one of these mass graves, she would also like to have him buried with dignity.

The inhabitants who remained at Mariupol survive in their destroyed city. The makeshift graves dug in the building courtyards are very numerous and it is impossible to say how many bodies are still buried under the rubble.

Summer is here and the smell of death is everywhere. She is unbearable. On this building we can read "shelter" and "welcome to hell". This man tells me that there are still many bodies under the rubble of this building. In front of us the Russian rescuers released five of them.

These bodies will be taken to a morgue where there is no electricity, so no refrigerator. Meanwhile, on the theater square of Mariupol , a screen broadcasts Russian television and messages to inform residents of the address of the migration services.

There is a full report here (again in French):
https://twitter.com/FranceTVMoscou/status/1532750979791192064

Now to even get this footage this must have gone through the Russian Authorities and is Russian propaganda. I find what it shows interesting even with that in mind because it shows what the Russians want to show...

blueshoes · 10/06/2022 22:23

Redtoothbrush the video of the mass graves. Just endless, rows upon rows, every cross is someone's unbearable grief, if they were alive to grieve. Utterly heartbreaking.

minsmum · 10/06/2022 22:38

mobile.twitter.com/mhmck/status/1535261709463592961 Moscow no longer exists

ScrollingLeaves · 11/06/2022 00:25

Thank you @RedToothBrush for posting the French TV video.

I saw the video with the heading
France TV Moscou· 3 Jun
100 jours de l'offensive russe : reportage dans la ville-martyre de Marioupol. La vie reprend au milieu de la mort qui règne encore partout. infofrance
Is that the one you meant?

That burial plot that extends as far as the eye can see is heartbreaking, and the little plots in back yards even more so somehow. And to see that even so there are still bodies lying everywhere, with more yet to come as they dig out the rubble.

I think the Russians approve and allow that report because the theme is
‘life resumes’ ; and Russia is helping that happen as they give out loaves of bread, phone recharging points, Russian school for eager children, and emigration opportunities, to the people who have no choice but to depend on them.

It is all there in this paragraph from that outline plan for Russia published in Ria Novosti last March
ccl.org.ua/en/news/ria-novosti-has-clarified-russias-plans-vis-a-vis-ukraine-and-the-rest-of-the-free-world-in-a-program-like-article-what-russia-should-do-with-ukraine-2/
(my bold):

The people’s republics newly created in the space free from Nazism should and will grow on the basis of economic self-government and social security, restoration and modernization of the life support systems of the population

In fact, their political aspirations cannot be neutral – expiation of guilt before Russia for treating it as an enemy can be realized only by relying on Russia in the processes of restoration, revival and development

Russia will see all this death, destruction and broken peoplef as the creation of a satisfying catharthis. How chilling this part of the plan is:
Historical experience shows that the tragedies and dramas of wartime benefit peoples who have been tempted and carried away by the role of an enemy of Russia.

All those graves, and atrocities, are just part of ‘the tragedy and drama’ of wartime.

This comment below the video resonates, I think:
Alexander Khara
Αλέξανδρος Χαρά
Replying to
FranceTVMoscou
COUPSURE
and
infofrance2
Life “resumes” to a tiny portion of those survived. It might be up to 20 000 Ukrainians were killed by the russian invaders. Life “resumes” to a few buildings that aren’t turned to rubbles by the russian savages. Life “resumes” to a handful of children that either weren’t

murdered or forcefully deported to russia. Life “resumes” with a new wave of russification which is along with murders and deportations constitute genocide according to the international law. Russia tortures, rapes, murders. No propaganda videos are able to whitewash it.

Life resumes(?) amongst the few still living after Putins slaughter. I hope every russian facist dies a brutal death for their evil

ScrollingLeaves · 11/06/2022 00:31

@minsmum smum · Yesterday 22:38
mobile.twitter.com/mhmck/status/1535261709463592961 Moscow no longer exists

That tweet is brilliant! 😀😀😀😀😀

MagicFox · 11/06/2022 07:07

More madness from Russian state tv, jumping on putin's empire building comments of yesterday. What I can't figure out is what their constant laughing means. It characterises a lot of their output. They make excessive statements and then sort of laugh, like they know what they're saying is outrageous. I dunno, I don't know what to make of it! twitter.com/adrianahamu/status/1535467197212119041?s=21&t=bqlRcTJxVgzcSAITjCVbjg

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 11/06/2022 09:02

https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/insight/2022/06/10/ukraine-journalism-lysychansk-russia-tanya-kozyreva-war-military-terror-truth/stories/202206050043

I recommend this article from a Ukrainian journalist who previously was a journalist who worked on financial crime such as the Panama Papers.

She reflects on reunions at funerals... And how awful all the stories she hears on the front line are.

She ends the article saying

Who knows how many more times we will have a funeral “reunion” by the end of this fighting? How many more of us will die? How many will be kidnapped, tortured or raped? How many of us will be forced to leave the country? How many more of us will survive? How many of us will resist the state propaganda, when the time comes?

I don’t know the answers to these questions.

What I do know is we don’t want to let go of the freedom we gained over the last years: the freedom of expression, the freedom of Ukrainian journalists, who have the courage to tell the truth no matter what. To tell the truth about Russian atrocities in Ukraine, to tell the truth of survivors of the Russian war crimes and witnesses of Russian dictatorship.

Russian journalism lost the battle with its own government and, as a result, lost its freedom. It’s our time to step in. None of us can make it alone. We can only make it all toget her. Only a critical quantity of free and independent voices can win the battle against the lies.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2022 09:10

Over by Christmas...

Max Seddon AT MaxSeddon
"Even if the west eventually sends the hundreds of rocket systems that Ukraine has asked for, Zelenskyy privately envisions a war that could drag on for years, depleting Ukraine’s population as the economy collapses and people move to Europe."
https://www.ft.com/content/506dad4d-6f8e-4952-aa11-32b139d326be

This para i think sums up the pattern thats starting to emerge in the last couple of weeks. It looks increasingly likely that Ukraine simply doesn't have the capability to retake lost ground even with western help. The figure i saw yesterday that said a lot was that Ukraine was outgunned by 10 to 1. Then it later said that the west had sent a 10th of what they had.

Morale is particularly low among territorial defence fighters who lack the battle experience of regular troops. A draft bill sent to Ukraine’s parliament on May 5 that would have given officers greater leeway to punish rebellious soldiers was considered and rejected less than two weeks later.

Russia’s intelligence services have pressed home the advantage. According to Ukrainian intelligence, servicemen are being sent SMS messages that threaten harm to them and their families, and that Sievierodonetsk will become another Mariupol, the Ukrainian port effectively razed by Russian artillery.

Multiple videos posted on social media, which may be part of Russia’s propaganda effort, also depict Ukrainian soldiers complaining about poor conditions, lack of food and need for rest.

In one, a captured scout says: “Food rarely came up at all. The wounded were not evacuated. After a while, many guys laid down their arms.” In another, the leader of a platoon says: “Morale is so low that no one can do it any more. Everyone is exhausted . . . We have no equipment, nothing to fight with except AK-47s.”

“The videos are hard to impossible to verify, but they are not unbelievable,” said Samuel Cranny-Evans, a military analyst at the Royal United Services Institute, a think-tank in London. “Like the foreign volunteers who went to the front, Ukraine’s territorial defence volunteers have discovered that high-intensity war is hard, and even harder if there is no support.”

Unfortunately this is tallying with various other sources of information.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2022 09:13

It seems Ukraine can only win if there is a Russian collapse of some description.

On a lighter note I bring you the story of Putin's Potty.
https://faridaily.substack.com/p/suitcase-or-a-porta-potty-how-putin?s=w
Suitcase or a "porta-potty"? How Putin protects his biomaterials
Faridaily details the treatment of the Russian President's body cells. Putin's security guards are hiding more than just his excrement from stranger

Someone has the job of literally clearing up his shit.

PinkestMoon · 11/06/2022 09:40

I know this is a really simplistic question and I'm asking out of anxiety so please be kind. I know nobody can say for sure but I'm overwhelmed by all the moving pieces - russia, China, etc. Do you think we are moving towards a world war in our children's lifetimes? I can't stop worrying about this

MagicFox · 11/06/2022 09:51

I wonder if economic decoupling might create the conditions for a world war but while everything is so interconnected? I do think that China-US is a boiling pot but I honestly don't know how it plays out. I think the term 'war' covers multiple fronts now eg economic, cyber. I dunno, there are much more knowledgeable people on this thread. It's pretty horrible feeling like we're entering into a dangerous new age.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 11/06/2022 09:56

PinkestMoon · 11/06/2022 09:40

I know this is a really simplistic question and I'm asking out of anxiety so please be kind. I know nobody can say for sure but I'm overwhelmed by all the moving pieces - russia, China, etc. Do you think we are moving towards a world war in our children's lifetimes? I can't stop worrying about this

There are wars all around the world in our lifetimes. Arguably there has been a civil war within the UK within mine. And the threat of terrorism, which is essentially war by another name, hasn't gone away.

Its pointless to worry about it. There is nothing you can do about it anyway.

Your children may get hit by a bus before then. You don't stop leaving your house.

There are many many things that could happen to your children in their lifetimes.

In the nicest possible way, the issue here isn't whether your children might have a war in their lifetimes which you can't prevent. The issue is having this level of anxiety which is dominating your life. Thats the thing that needs addressing first as its something you do have some control over.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2022 09:58

MagicFox · 11/06/2022 09:51

I wonder if economic decoupling might create the conditions for a world war but while everything is so interconnected? I do think that China-US is a boiling pot but I honestly don't know how it plays out. I think the term 'war' covers multiple fronts now eg economic, cyber. I dunno, there are much more knowledgeable people on this thread. It's pretty horrible feeling like we're entering into a dangerous new age.

The phrase everyone should consider is merely 'climate change' tbh.

MagicFox · 11/06/2022 10:00

@RedToothBrush well yes, and the fact that wars screw us even further. I had hope at one point that this would be a uniting thing that forced everybody to come together but old white men don't give a shit about anything past the end of their own noses

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ScrollingLeaves · 11/06/2022 10:08

That FT article reports our worst fears being true. What those defenders are going through may prove too much to bear with no end in sight and the help they need coming too late.

I now think that Hungary has been obstructive because it knows that if it came to it NATO wouldn’t be there to help it, or would only take action too late. So it has placed its bets on Russia on the basis that if it doesn’t annoy Russia too much it will be left alone.