The country is a shit show - why is there so little mention of Brexit's role?

[Neonskytonight]

That's it really.

Surely all our woes can't be placed at the door of covid and war - it is a good political narrative, but is it really true?

I'm amazed how little questioning by the media and public there is about the role of Brexit.

Imo, and I haven’t really thought about this before and other Aussies may disagree, Australia didn’t have that clout and was not held up as a major contributor as it is now. So it has been developed over time

Over the decades it has striven to be taken seriously - in many different avenues - sports, arts, science, food and so on

The U.K. has a powerful background to build on, it has assets and is highly attractive to o/s but I do think it seems to be struggling to get that same positivity Aus has

Many people do want to be part of IK, London especially or science bodies etc and move to be part of it

Most of this stuff is coming from a place where I see an imbalance in self reflection. UK needs a pick me up but it has a huge amount going for it

I have travelled pretty far so I don’t mind big moves (lived in US too) but language is a factor, Aus isn’t great at speaking many

This scientist doesn't see too many benefits....

www.theguardian.com/education/2019/jun/03/brexit-may-bar-uk-scientists-from-100bn-eu-research-fund

The U.K. has a powerful background to build on, it has assets and is highly attractive to o/s but I do think it seems to be struggling to get that same positivity Aus has

Probably because much of the world thinks the UK was crazy to leave the EU.... apart from Putin and Trump, did any other world leader thing it a good idea?

Partners family are part Australian, Australia has done a brilliant job building it rep up but as you say, took decades and they had plenty going for it in the meantime.

The U.K. has plenty going for it and it’s at a higher base than Aus was

Also I don’t think people care as much about what the U.K. does as we think - they have their own lives and issues

If they get the visa scheme for recent graduates going more people like me might get the same opportunity to come here and give it a go

Just back from an EU country. Had an interesting chat with DH’s cousins who both work in the biomedical industry. They used to work with a lab in UK but since Brexit they now use a lab in France.

it’s anecdotal but talking to people there and watching the news, it felt like the EU has moved on in the last 6 years yet in the UK people are still arguing over Brexit. Such a waste of time and money for the UK, and completely self inflicted.

"No, the vast majority of working class kids have not been trapped in the UK.Hmm Anyone who could get a passport could work and study in the EU, be it au-pairing or physics, attending universities or short apprenticeship training.
They are a lot more trapped now than they were before Brexit."
Sorry but I think you live in some kind of fantasy world. I don't know of any working-class kids who did any of the above. I've no doubt a few did, but most people just get normal jobs.

And I ask again, why are the people who want to move abroad to study or work, more important than the people who want to stay in the UK? Surely the government should prioritise people within their own country who are living, working and paying taxes here instead of people who think the grass is greener elsewhere?

@P00rKids
Is there any country youd like to visit or have a high opinion of?

Actually we do own it. Its funded by European governments.

@P00rKids
I've been to CERN took my kids there, it's an amazing place and I highly recommend a visit, especially if you have kids to take . They do science shows on a Saturday for children and the shows are done by real big names Googlable scientists. They have a visitor centre, an art centre and you can book a tour to go underground to see the LHC , my kids were too young for this unfortunately. It's all free as well. If they have space you can book a cheap room in their dormitories and eat in the canteen, you might even get to share a table with a Nobel Prize winner!

And I ask again, why are the people who want to move abroad to study or work, more important than the people who want to stay in the UK? Surely the government should prioritise people within their own country who are living, working and paying taxes here instead of people who think the grass is greener elsewhere?

The UK Govt never prioritised people who wanted to live or work in the EU, just as they never prioritised those who didn't....

The EU is still basically a trading bloc and not being part of it, damages our economy and hence the very people you wish to prioritise.... these is a reason our economy has and is being hit so hard,
OECD say zero growth, 2nd only to Russia, after 2 years of LD's ...we should be bouncing back...

Too many people blame being in the EU for the UKs undoubted problems but the answer lies a lot closer to home, Brexit isn't going to solve any of them.

I did my doctorate there, and still get back to see friends. The U.K. remains a major partner in the whole collaboration.

@Kendodd

•I like holidays yeah .... why u ask? Is it relevant? Oh no your trying to twist things and imagine things about me. Very creative. But dumb 😂

•Not particularly arsed if I don’t get to visit the lab no! Certainly not as arsed as you evidently are. No plans on going, other priorities. It’s never been in my diary. But if my kid doesn’t get to visit the lab I might just go all out and fucking murder some cunt though. That’s how fuming i’ll be. I’m scream and scream until I’m sick. I’ll make them regret it. How very dare they do that to my entitled kid. Oh the rage. Oh my rights. I fucking own it 😂

@Kendodd and good morning by the way ☕️😊

@NotKevinTurvey that is extremely interesting to know and maybe in the future I would be interested.

@Kendodd it still makes absolutely no difference to my political stance though. Your points are still completely irrelevant sorry. It winds me up.

Note to self - do not engage with remoaners. Time is precious

Note to self - do not engage with remoaners. Time is precious

Please! Do us all a favour.

@NotKevinTurvey I'm as working class as they come grew up on benefits and was expelled from school at 15 without a GCSE to my name. And I think CERNs brilliant , the science they do is amazing, so glad my kids got to visit. I think it's a real shame @P00rKids thinks these things and just general travel work study and retirement in Europe aren't for working class people and aren't for her kids. I also think she's demonstrably wrong.

I personally know plenty of people, from my top ten most deprived area in the country who did a spell working in Europe when they were young or retired there. Ffs even Sick Boy and Renton tried their luck in Europe. I know, fictional characters, but based on the writers real life experience in working class Edinburgh.

I did my doctorate there, and still get back to see friends. The U.K. remains a major partner in the whole collaboration

30 UK Uni's are involved, its great isn't it.

But CERN isn't an EU thing, the UK risks being locked out of EU science projects, basically to keep BJ in power and appease the ERG MPs.

Sure some believe we can build coop with Aus and USA but what a crying shame when before we could have the EU angle and still have partners around the world.

You're not exactly doing much to change people's perception of the type of person who voted Leave.

Does it even matter whether you or your aptly named poor kids were going to take advantage of those opportunities.

Why take them away from other people’s kids? What did you get in return which makes your life demonstrably better?

What did you get in return which makes your life demonstrably better?

It seems a very dog in the manger attitude: I don't want it, and I don't want anyone else to have it either.

Kendodd - did you go back to the area you grew up in? My experience is that those people who have the get up and go to try something different tend not to go back. So those left behind become more and more insular. Now it's fine if they are happy with their lot; not so if they resent others who did have more get up and go about them.

The thing that we got in return was kids who remain in the UK can get jobs without having to compete with Eastern European adults prepared to work for NMW or little more.

So you took away the opportunities for aspirational kids to get better jobs and opportunities at home and abroad so that your kids could get the NMW jobs?

Really?

Wow.

The thing that we got in return was kids who remain in the UK can get jobs without having to compete with Eastern European adults prepared to work for NMW or little more.

I don't think those EU Vets staffing our abattoirs were on NMW somehow. But good luck to your kids training for veterinary medicine.

@Florenz Eustice say that the migrant visa scheme now open to 40,000 people.

UK kids never competed for these jobs, they never applied for them in the first place.

They either aspired to more skilled employment, not able to do hard manual work or in the case of skilled work, didn't have the skills and 6 years in, still don't... e.g. hence 110k healthcare vacancies,