The country is a shit show - why is there so little mention of Brexit's role?

[Neonskytonight]

That's it really.

Surely all our woes can't be placed at the door of covid and war - it is a good political narrative, but is it really true?

I'm amazed how little questioning by the media and public there is about the role of Brexit.

So, in other words, we have a worse version of what we had before?

What exactly is better since Brexit? I can't see a single thing. Not one.

I was responding to the statement that EHIC entitlement has ended. It has not.

@DoraSpenlow but it has if you want to go to Switzerland or the other countries that were included in the EHIC but aren't included in the GHIC.

I am pretty sure that the GHIC does cover Switzerland, but I have chucked out the leaflet which came with it, so can't confirm it.

What annoyed me was the gall of calling something Global when it covered fewer countries.

@Peregrina

Yes, you are correct, I have just re-read the info on the NHS site. Switzerland is included.

Apologies, my mistake.

Ok, I realise you have the same feelings as very many who wanted to remain. Are u trying to prove that the political campaigns were lies?

To answer your question honestly (I know you’ll hate my answer and have a whole new dig) I didn’t listen to absolutely ANY of the political campaigns, hardly watch the news, saw no buses whatsoever etc. Stayed clear of ALL this debate on the internet. Quite detached from it all really. You can criticise this, as I’m sure you will, but my decision was my own heartfelt, educated decision. I am educated to degree level in economics before you dig at my education

I think the idea is that more countries will be added to the GHIC card over time, making it more 'global'. There was certainly talk of negotiations with Australia and others which I don't remember.

That was @TooBigForMyBoots

Sorry by who the heck wants to go to Switzerland anyway? Ok few will, but is that really a point worth mention in the grand scheme of things. I get that it provokes feelings @Peregrina but don’t you see that developing the global economy might actually take some time, rather than be instant

Are you serious with that ridiculous question?

Every single comment from Leave voters here just cements my impression that they're ignorant, small minded Little Englanders who live in a bubble and resent anyone who has the gumption, curiosity and intelligence to actually want to see a bit of the world.

Who the heck wants to go to Switzerland....Jesus Christ. It's not like it's widely considered one of the most beautiful countries in the world and a very short flight from the UK or anything. Yeah, who would want to go there?

pixie5121 It’s their standard argument isn’t it - Euramus only a few middle class kids, AuPairs - who wants to do that, Switerzland - who wants to go there.

in other words, I can’t and don’t want to , so I’m not letting you either.

Stuff like Erasmus is great for the kids who get to go on it, no-one is denying that. But the negative effects of FOM affect far more people than go on Erasmus. There's a lot more people working on building sites, in hospitality, in care work etc who are finally seeing wage rises after many years of stagnancy and real-team wage decreases. The kids who would go on Erasmus will be fine either way.

Absolutely. It's a race to the bottom.

No education, no languages, no curiosity, no ambition.

"Let's just drag everyone else down to our level" sort of thinking.

But they wouldn't, that's the point.

I could not have gone on Erasmus or worked as an au pair without FOM. Working class kids are now trapped in the UK, pretty much.

Yes, wages have risen in those sectors, and there are massive shortages of workers. Because guess what, it's not about the money and never was. Lots of people just don't want to work. And if the wages rise any higher, and continue to be passed on to customers, nobody will be going out to eat, staying in hotels or wanting loft extensions.

The vast majority of working-class kids have always been trapped in the UK. And it's better that wages and working conditions in the UK rise for the great majority even if it as the expense of the minority who want to go and work abroad.

What kind of country is it where it would be otherwise? Why would you want to make things so bad at home that kids feel they have to move overseas to have any chance in life?

It's always about the money. People will always want to work if the standard of living they can afford when working is substantially greater than that on benefits.

The kids who would go on Erasmus will be fine either way.

well that’s ok then - you think they are fine! Everyone else’s view , opinion and ambition is irrelevant.

ignorant, small minded Little Englanders who live in a bubble and resent anyone who has the gumption, curiosity and intelligence to actually want to see a bit of the world.

😂 I’m like .... OK

That got me told 👍 Do u vote Labour by the way? Coz that’s why I don’t vote them. No I don’t want to go to Switzerland. I’ll say it again, I don’t want to go there. So it’s irrelevant to me. I don’t give a toss who does want to go there, why would I. They’re not entitled to go anyway just because they stamp their feet and have a hissy fit. But actually, they can still go there anyway. So what’s the point of this conversation? None, at all is there. Pointless as ever 😂

No offence to anyone from Switzerland🇨🇭 Just pointing out the irrelevance

But there were options before. It wasn't as rare as you think for working class kids to try their luck in Europe. Now those options are gone.

It's not about 'having' to emigrate. It's about wanting to see some of the world and not live in a sad little bubble, like you do. I could have spent summers working in a factory in the UK, but instead I got to live and work in several different European countries. That expands your outlook and broadens your horizons. People who have travelled all over Europe don't say things like "why would anyone want to go to Switzerland?"

Unemployment in the UK is incredibly low. There are lots of people who will never work again for various reasons - health, mental health, family. Lots of the people signing on have no intention of ever working, either because they don't want to or they can't. And even if some of them would work if the pay for cleaning toilets were £50 an hour, those wages just aren't sustainable. If that happened, the rest of us would also need to have massive pay rises so we could afford to use these services. Where is the money coming from for that?

"well that’s ok then - you think they are fine! Everyone else’s view , opinion and ambition is irrelevant."
Who is more important? The kids who do things like Erasmus or the ones that don't? Shouldn't the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?

Yes, I do vote Labour.

So your argument is that you don't want to go to Switzerland, so you can't understand why anyone would. You have the mentality of a toddler.

All that's going to happen now is that the wealthy elite get wealthier and wealthier while the working class and underclass are worse off than in living memory. You're like a turkey voting for Christmas.

it's better that wages and working conditions in the UK rise for the great majority even if it as the expense of the minority who want to go and work abroad.

why not have the ambition to achieve both?

it’s not difficult - isn’t that what the country be aiming for ? I

Saying you want to sacrifice the needs those you deem unworthy is selfish and a dangerous road to go down.

But what exactly do you think is better for the many?

What has changed?

What has improved because of Brexit?

There literally isn't a single thing. Not one.

The cost of living is spiralling out of control. Who do you think is suffering most because of that?

It will take time to adjust. But wages have pretty drastically shot up for those in construction, hospitality, lorry drivers, and other working class jobs. People will just have to get used to how things are, middle-class lifestyles have been subsidised for far too long, some people will have to remember how to do their own cleaning, cooking and childcare instead of expecting other people to do it for them for a pittance.

You have the mentality of a toddler.

Because I have no frantic urge to go to Switzerland? Really, is that the criteria? Are u sure that your insults and reasoning are logical there. Or are u just venting and spitting?