The country is a shit show - why is there so little mention of Brexit's role?

[Neonskytonight]

That's it really.

Surely all our woes can't be placed at the door of covid and war - it is a good political narrative, but is it really true?

I'm amazed how little questioning by the media and public there is about the role of Brexit.

I'm kind of over it now, as a raging remainer I'm now "meh, enjoy the shit show, Brexit voters, I hope it's hurting you". It's all such an unmitigated pile of crap it's almost laughable.

@Florenz strange then that having just come back to UK after 19 months in Denmark- they simply don't have the same level of issues- they too had covid and Ukraine. It's all very well saying people having to pay wages that people will work for- lots of these places are offering higher wages and they still cannot get the staff - this is because virtually everyone who is able to and wants to work 'is' doing so and their is a section of the population who are either unable, domestic circumstances make it difficult or are quite happy doing naff all but getting by as such- don't know about you but I can't see the difference from having workers from Poland, Czech Republic, Lithuania etc to suddenly finding they will loosen rules for people from India/Bangladesh. At least with the EU there were huge advantages like 'we could go and live/work' there for as long as we want. These higher wages are also very limited to certain sectors experiencing shortages , logistics, warehousing, hospitality it's not benefitting the average social worker, teacher, nurse is it!!! However to pay those in the sectors benefitting from increased wages- we now 'All' have rapidly increasing prices regardless of whether your pay has risen much or not- so basically we have scandinavian price levels and tax levels (if you factor in Tax, NI, council tax ( Denmark doesn't have NI or council tax) but without scandinavian wage levels (around times and a half the UK) or the cheap childcare. The media are quiet about it , because most of the press magnates stood to gain from offshore tax implications and BBC has a politically appointed by the Tory's chairman. People voted for it yes- there should never have been a vote- too many people had zero understanding of the total implications- a lot thought it meant no more immigration of any kind - that would never be the case.

And please don't forget folks were told goods would be cheaper and £350m a week to NHS- all a complete load of hogwash-

1.Fuel prices are increasing everywhere. I was in spain last week and their prices were equal to ours. The us is also reporting record high prices www.google.com/amp/s/oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Gasoline-Prices-Surge-To-New-Record-High-On-Memorial-Day.amp.html

1. As is everywhere. Consumer prices are up 70% compared to 12 months earlier in turkey. The UKs high prices is no where near this level
2. Only last week was i talking to a french colleague who brought up the lack of supply in france
3. 83 flights into the US cancelled today, all from differebt airlines/countries. uk.flightaware.com/live/cancelled/today
4. Ill give you that, the M20 is in the UK
5. God knows what you mean - what specific security issue are you on about that dont affect other countries who have condemned Putin's actions
6. I cannot comment

There is so much going on globally that brexit cannot be blamed for the above. If the above were caused by brexit other countries would not be affected

That's about it.

If you're looking for excellent reporting on brexit the FT is really good (although behind a paywall). It doesn't have a political spin, its readership just want to know what's happening. Unfortunately, reality is absolutely excoriating. Brexit is an unmitigated disaster, and will only get worse, slowly and inexorably, until we inevitably rejoin the single market and/or the customs union.

I don't know! Almost like the government has bought off all the media or been bought off by them. It's a mystery

I don't sense conspiracy.

it's like commenting that the sun is in the sky or that you will get wet if you stand in the rain. It's the whole context of things that "can't be changed".

Unfortunately, I think a lot of the people who voted for Brexit have now forgotten that it was ever a thing. Covid was a gift to Boris because it became a convenient peg to hang everything on. The Ukraine War was another gift that provided a helpful distraction from partygate. One day, the truth might finally catch up with him and he won't have any excuses left.

You can't just get some numpty from round the corner to oversee an abattoir or rewire a house.~

No, but we could invest significantly more in education and training. Employers could be given a kick up the backside when it comes to investing in staff. As far as the NHS goes - we have always since its inception relied on foreigners to staff it. They could bring back nursing and midwifery burseries.

Yet it’s not. Always the Remainers who bring it up whenever they want t8 get angry about stuff.
There was a referendum. Not first past the post, in or out.
It was always about the longer term despite what Remainers want to think. Not buses or racism.
Surely the take away message from the last few years is we need to sort out our own resources, be it energy, food or workforce rather than relying on everyone else because stuff happens.

It was always about the longer term despite what Remainers want to think. Not buses or racism.

Only once Rees-Mogg started rewriting history.

One immediate promise - out of the EU we could reduce or scrap VAT on fuel. It hasn't happened. Why not?

As for it not being about racism - we currently have a government which was wholly committed to a hard Brexit come what may. Try looking at their policies towards asylum seekers - the first flight to Rwanda is due to depart in the next few days? Who will be on it? The strong chance is that it will be black and brown skinned people.

Why haven't the companies who have shortages of staff trained staff well in advance? They have no excuses. Maybe they are working in other fields and need to be enticed by higher wages and better working conditions. You can't just pay people a pittance and expect people to put up with it.

Of course it can be changed.

This country has been a shitshow for years. Covid, Brexit, wars - all just made things a worse. But we were completely fucked long before all of that.

What are you talking about?

Vets are not trained by companies. They train at universities.
Many electricians are not trained by companies. They train at colleges.

If you don't even understand the basics like this, what are you basing your claims on? Vets were not underpaid, electricians were not underpaid. The wages were not the problem.

You were lied to. Sorry you fell for it.

Yes, we could. But we are not doing it and it would take 5-10 years to get the nursing courses set up (student nurses need placements, not just lectures) and then people trained and into the workplace.

It is a myth to think we can 'just' do this or that. We can do it but it needs investement and time.

As an aside, the government is reducing teacher training providers as we head into a massive teaching shortage. Once those providers are gone it will not be easy or quick to replace them. So will we import teachers or do without?

Many countries, especially the US, are suffering from labour shortages across a range of industries at the moment. So it's not really about Brexit.

People quite understandably don't want to be truck drivers or airport baggage handlers, working antisocial hours etc, and getting crap pay.

We can do it but it needs investement and time.

So once the vote was Leave, what stopped them making plans? Why stop the nursing and midwifery bursaries for a starter?

You might be able to guess I voted Remain and haven't seen any Leaver present an argument that is likely to change my mind.

Because Brexit was built on lies. I feel cross with those who voted for it and crosser still with those who promoted it.

Exactly. Many, many of the Europeans living here were in highly skilled jobs. It's not like Tiffani-Mae with 3 GCSEs is exactly in a position to work as a heart surgeon or civil engineer.

Brexit was based on racism, xenophobia and ignorance. We have a large underclass in this country (and don't call me a snob, I'm related to people like this) who deluded themselves for decades into thinking their lives were shit because of 'foreigners' and they couldn't get a job because of 'foreigners'.

Not a single one of the issues Brexit voters were bothered about was caused by the EU. Not a single fucking one. All they've done is make everything much, much worse. Now we don't even have the EU overseeing what's going on, the ruling elite are free to fuck everyone over even more, increasing inequality to levels never seen in our lifetimes. The likes of Nigel Farage have made sure their own kids are sorted with EU passports and plenty of opportunities, while most of the people who voted for his policies will now be plunged into poverty.

Slow clap.

But it is about Brexit. Because previously, there were enough people from poor EU countries who found it worth it to take those jobs. Even a minimum wage salary in the UK stretches quite far in places like Romania and Bulgaria.

Now there's no incentive for people like that to be here. They can go anywhere else in the EU, where they don't have endless forms and faff. I know quite a few people who have gone to Switzerland (EU citizens have right to work there) and are on twice the money they used to make, with a far higher standard of living, for menial, unskilled work.

We have shot ourselves in the foot, completely. The average Brexit voter had absolutely no idea how much the country depended on European workers. People took the low cost of living in the UK for granted. They were used to cheap food, cheap labour costs. Prices are already spiralling out of control and it's only going to get worse. If hotels and restaurants now need to double wages to retain staff, guess who's paying for that?

I think it's a very pertinent point you make, OP.

I personally think this is a sign that Brexit doesn't really register on people's consciousness as a clear idea with an emotional charge. That's probably why they voted for it: they took a thread or two of the argument, or a false thesis, and went with it, not really unpacking the whole complicated problem, and now it's gone back to being a grey cloud in their heads, with bits of abstract noun floating about in it.

I mean, we're all enjoying being united over Ukraine now, and all thinking the same way with our European counterparts. "But hang on....don't we feel no synergy at all with that lot?" ",Err.....obviously not".

@Florenz you aren't getting it - it's nothing to do with companies training-- the shortages are because there are not sufficient numbers of people remaining in the UK who actually want to do certain jobs , regardless of pay or conditions and we also have insufficient qualified and available in some highly skilled well paid industries. In fact some of those Brits who were actually highly skilled in those industries have now left the Uk because of the general air of backward thinking plus the shitty bunch of corrupt buggers in charge. They got fed up of being called 'snowflakes and remoaners etc' and have the in demand skills to still qualify in EU - medics, scientists, tech guys etc - Met plenty in Denmark -

I voted remain and felt upset (or even angry) for a while after but Im trying to understand what is U.K. specific or not

Pp mentioned US flights cancelled but a bit closer to here and in EU France seems to have shortages, maybe other EU countries but haven’t googled

www.thelocal.fr/20220530/analysis-why-france-is-facing-a-severe-worker-shortage-this-summer/

reasons seem similar

Repeated lockdowns and closures of bars and restaurants meant that hospitality staff endured months of furlough in 2020 and 2021. By the time the bars and cafés reopened, many had found work in different sectors and are reluctant to return.