The country is a shit show - why is there so little mention of Brexit's role?

[Neonskytonight]

That's it really.

Surely all our woes can't be placed at the door of covid and war - it is a good political narrative, but is it really true?

I'm amazed how little questioning by the media and public there is about the role of Brexit.

Coming from a country with point based immigration and o/s study schemes that are very good - it can be done well

I don’t have info to compare but it can work

Three in our family studied o/s and that’s just on exchanges and systems in place

Are you so blind that you cannot see that many WC people benefited from FOM? And how ending it has been detrimental to the UK and its citizens @Florenz?

You voted away the rights of our young people, young, bright, aspirational, adventurous young people. As well as everyone else whose life has become more difficult. Millions and millions of people in the UK were damaged by the end of FOM.

How has it made your area better?

@Clavinova
Tory Minister Heather Wheeler saying this yesterday “I was at a conference in Blackpool or Birmingham or somewhere godawful…”

She reminds me of Labour MP Emily Thornberry and her 'white van man' gaffe

Apart from the Whataboutery, White van man was one voter, who put a flag on his house...... Birmingham and Blackpool are very real places, home to many millions.... and Thornberry wasn't in Government, at least ET said she was wrong, Wheeler said "these aren't my views...." wtf? You said it...

I think "Charisma" may well be the Tories downfall, i ve the opposite fear, that Hunt does become PM and the millions of Tory voters who have had enough of Bojo, will return back to the Tories.

I want BJ to lead the Tories into the next GE, he is fast becoming a comedy character and figure of ridicule.

Alexandra2001

Do you have a link to the research showing that the majority of tax payers voted remain?

i seem to recall you almost voted to remain
Almost - right up until the last second

Yet you seem such an advocate for Brexit now.. what in your opinion has gone well? and or will go well.

Originally, i was pro leave but once you looked into the pro's and con's plus the empty optimism of Leave, it was clear Brexit was being done for Johnson and Farage's personal benefit.

Another thing to look at is location

A fair few of us studied in the US and didn’t pay the extortionate college fees. A system which allows that can be broader if done well. We had a huge amount of places to choose from

"Are you so blind that you cannot see that many WC people benefited from FOM? And how ending it has been detrimental to the UK and its citizens"
Clearly I am. I've no doubt it benefitted a few working class people. But how did it benefit the many more working class people who didn't want to work overseas, who didn't go to University? Who just want a reasonably well paid job within reasonable distance of their home?

"You voted away the rights of our young people, young, bright, aspirational, adventurous young people."
What about all the young people that aren't bright, aspirational or adventurous? And what about all the people that aren't young? How many people are young, bright, aspirational and adventurous and should their careers take priority over everyone else? I have a feeling they'll be fine anyway.

I found this quickly, i'm sure you'll find something that destroys it.

and its not the original research i saw some time ago but it does illustrate the demographic divides, its a combination of many different areas.

www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities

Turing hasn't had time to prove itself yet, i doubt anyone has actually studied abroad yet or very few.

We are we are, so i hope your optimism is well placed.

re optimism - Me too as if you do get a scheme open to pretty much anywhere it’s fairly incredible.

As someone who left for London shortly after graduating, as did many of my friends, visas to recent graduates from anywhere also sounds very good

I did vote remain and was an ardent remainer but if we can see a greater variety of places benefitting then I’ll look at the silver lining

The truck queues mentioned by pp just going back is one thing I’d love to see go, I think that’s an evident downside

Alexandra2001
I found this quickly, i'm sure you'll find something that destroys it.

Even your link says that 41% of higher professionals supported leave - and in any area/community the most disadvantaged and poorly educated are the ones least likely to vote at all.

Apart from the Whataboutery, White van man was one voter, who put a flag on his house...

More than that - Emily Thornberry resigned from the Shadow Cabinet because of her tweet.

I think the research link comprehensively supports what i said earlier but i'm pleased that you acknowledge this.

Normally, thats the case but one thing stands out in my mind from june 2016 and that was IDS smiling gleefully when told that w/c housing estates in the North had high voter turn out.

He knew the stupid were more likely to vote Leave and what else do you call folk who vote against their best interests? and i include plenty of the better off well educated in that too...

Ah a politician with some honour... how standards have fallen in this Govt.

Nothing wrong with resigning if you get things wrong, these people are supposed to be public servants not World Kings lording it over us.

You'll have to c&p a link as to who said that particular phrase/

I remember that tweet - shows the power of image and snobbery together. I’m sure she regretted such a clumsy and wrong footed mistake.

And what about the people who aren't that young?

The pet owning campers? The experts? The holiday makers? EHIC users? The entire population of NI? Yeah, you fucked things up for them too.🙄

A lot of those people voted for Brexit too. Over 40% of people in Northern Ireland voted for it.

If the EU was that great, people wouldn't have voted for Brexit. That's the long and short of it.

Alexandra2001
I think the research link comprehensively supports what i said earlier

I don't think it does at all - and subsequent studies have disputed some of the findings.

IDS smiling gleefully when told that w/c housing estates in the North had high voter turn out.

An Oxford academic -
Middle class Southerners caused Brexit, not working class Northerners.

59% of all leave voters were middle class

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/715616/Brexit-EU-referendum-European-Union-middle-class-working-north-south-Dorling-BBC-Newsnight

Over 40% of people in Northern Ireland voted for it.

Yep. DUP voters voted for it. They were another demographic who were lied to by Leave and boy are they regretting it now.🙈 Some in NI voted for it because God said to.🤯 Some voted for it because they are racists. Some voted for it because they recognised the benefits of NI being half in, half out of the UKand EU (the more wealthy in our society). And some voted for it to destabilise the Union, they're the only group who are pretty happy with the way things are going.

Being in the EU was a good thing for the UK. As many who voted for Brexit now realise.

How has not Brexit improved your life and community @Florenz?

You voted away the rights of our young people, young, bright, aspirational, adventurous young people.

Eh, this I don’t get? What young people? So you’re pissed coz your kids wanted to move abroad - out of UK. Ok then 🤷‍♂️

I think DUP and their supporters voted Leave because they thought it would rip up the GFA (that they campaigned hard against) and deliver a hard border between NI and RoI. I think the Nationalists who voted Leave did so because they believed it would bring them a big step closer to a united Ireland. Overall, I think they have very different motivations to the people in England.

My kid does now. She's looking to do medicine at university (partly) because she knows she will have to be very highly skilled to get a visa for somewhere and she sees this as her ticket out.

Youre from Australia, is that right Marsha?

ive just had to let my incredible Australian staffer go. She’s got a right to be here (Spain) (married to a local etc) but not the paperwork because of COVID offices being closed, appointment backlogs etc. She is really pissed off that it wouldn’t have happened were she Irish, French etc. She’s incredulous at what we Brits have done.

Yes I agree. I'm sick of poor people being blamed for the shit show that is Brexit. If anything its wealthy retirees from the home counties who voted out on mass. These people had done very well indeed while members of the EU put don't fit the parody of poor downtrodden doing anything for a better life.