Boris and his fines part 4

[Roussette]

Previous thread. More to come on the subject matter

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4536641-boris-has-been-fined-part-3?reply=117100091

My personal hope is that we do away with First Past The Post and move to a proportional parliament. No more one Dear Leader having absolute power on 43% of the vote. Force concession in politics. Force them to actually debate and come to conclusion.

When you see the Select Committees debating things you see sense in Parliament, but then we get the braying mob of MPs jeering at eachother across the house every Wednesday. Why can't we have more like the Select Committees and have them actually take their recommendations through?

First Past The Post disenfranchises those in safe seats. It leaves us with MPs who are shoe-ins, the Party's representative to us not our representative to government as they should be. It's no longer turnout is low if so many people feel their vote has no meaning because whatever they do even a donkey in the appropriate coloured rosette will win.

We also see an ugly side of safe seats, that of marginals seats and politician's energy being focused on them. If you live in a marginal seat the you have power and you'll see money spent in our area to bribe you to vote for the incumbent.

So in an ideal world we'll have a Left Coalition next government who'll bring about proportional representation. We'll head to a much more sane democracy (one that would have likely prevented a lot of the mess we've had over the past years).

Agree. Using woke as an insult is the 21st century "PC gone mad".

It is natural that some of the younger generation are particularly woke. That is the way of things and how progress is made. It is a good thing.

I also agree that issues around women's rights and trans rights should be discussed away from this thread. I would hate the thread to be deleted if discussions become contentious.

whether woke is still a positive thing depends on what it encompasses and if I’m signing any of my rights as a woman away under its banner. Others will feel differently

I’m happy to ignore women rights issues on this thread - but if it is posted that it is the most unimportant issue then I’ll likely respond to that

About PR, is it something the public wants? Remember the referendum the Lib Dems sold their soul for? I know that was for a sort of watered down version of PR, but even so, the public didn't seem to want the voting system changed.

Re: "Womens rights are not a shield behind which the Conservative party can shelter whilst they chronically underfund the legal services"

(How do you do partial quotes on this thing?)

I think it was Yvette Cooper stood up in The House recently and read out statistics for convictions for serious crime including rape. They're shocking. The amount of people who get their crime taken through court and convicted within a year is so small it's statistically insignificant (<5%)

A Twitter account, "The Secret Barrister", has been commenting on this for a while. He notes that cuts to the court system and services have crippled them.

Similarly we have seen drastic cuts to policing over the Tories' tenure. The party may claim to be The Party of Law And Order and may happily pass laws making more things more illegal, but if we can't police it and we can't process the convictions it's more hot air.

Crime rises in line with increase in poverty.

I think more people are waking up to the horrors of First Past The Post. We've seen a Prime Minister wielding dictatorial level power, including granting himself Henry VIIIth powers to bypass Parliament, on 43% of of the vote. We've seen how the current system is completely unable to hold power to account and how checks and balances are being erased under our noses. We have a government that stands 100% for the interests of a minority of the populace and completely disregards the rest.

If that's what you want to do marsha, nobody will stop you.

I don't like to be accused of not being interested in women's rights because I don't believe this lot has any interest in protecting it.

Knowing what a woman is does not feed your family or heat your home or give you access to affordable child care, health services, education, legal aid etc.

They are liars and law breakers

ADadInDisguise I would like to believe you are right, but sadly I think the Tories will continue to have huge support in England, whatever happens.

Duncin I wasn’t accusing you re not caring it really was just the line I quoted in bold that got to me. I’ve been re-reading some feminist stuff from earlier days and it’s reminded me how strongly I feel.

I haven’t said that it’s not important to anyone on here - just that line stood out

I get other issues are more important and people will vote on that basis, I know it’s quite niche to a large part of the public. Mn esp FWR is good at highlighting the issue and I’m definitely more aware of it issue to that. Plus reading that article felt like the few times my group of voters has been recognised (and I’ve said oh come on a fair few times re Blair resurfacing)

I wouldn’t tell people what to find important, nor that they don’t care

All Johnson said is "There is such a thing as biology" and people on a previous thread leapt upon that statement as though Johnson was the second coming and were all going to vote Tory.

I don’t think this is accurate re what people think

For me, it’s the direction of Labour that is concerning - I see this too on FWR so I do think many other posters feel the same (which I’m grateful for)

Well I must say I have impressed myself with how successful a daft comment about Boris knowing what a woman is has derailed the thread for several pages, so we are not talking about Boris being a liar and breaking the law.

I suppose his regular fans and apologists on here can only hope to emulate my success.

'I think the Tories will continue to have huge support in England'

Well said claudine .

I found your sarcastic anti women statement off colour and posted accordingly

so what?

it was all the replies and dislike at being called Labour supporters that took up space

if you find the topic most unimportant of the day that’s a shame. You can join the many men who agree with you.

Oh, is one meant to post what one thinks, rather than jumping on any passing bandwagon like Boris does with his oh I know what a woman is nonsense whilst shafting them at every opportunity?

it was the most unimportant issue part I responded to

if you want to go on about all the other stuff - go for it I wouldn’t pick up on it

If Boris thought woman's rights were important he would have done something about them in his time in government. He does not, the only thing that is important to him is Boris.

You can say that no issue -

however I don’t want to join in with any idea it is the most unimportant issue of the day - I care too much about it. And I’m not going to join in in what men have been telling us throughout history.

fine if people want argue anything else but the idea that it’s at the bottom of everything made me post in response

I didn’t bring up the topic but I did respond to it - and then got quoted by many.

If Boris thought woman's rights were important he would have done something about them in his time in government

Wholeheartedly agree. Yvette Cooper's analysis of rape conviction stats was devastating imo. Just one example.

Self-evidently, on the definition put forward, it isn't.

But if you want to see a political party that erases women's rights, have a look at the one in power currently.

But biology is the the pivot of our very existence. When Labour politicians can't say what a woman is they sound like members of the Flat Earth Society.

Not al feminists think the same. Not all women think the same. A woman who thinks differently form some other women on the gender debate is not ' a man' and not even 'not a feminist'. As I tried to mention , most young people from the new voters demographic have different views.

I hope we can move this thread back now to Boris' lies (although we have one here - it's become the new 'what's your favourite biscuit?' trap it seems to me)

Which definition? The one below? that’s one interpretation

I’d need to know what it encompasses before wanting to align with it or not

Having quickly googled a fair few articles re ‘woke’ does include women’s rights issues and the tensions around it

Just seen what Rachel McLean said. FFS.

There is a whole debate around whether 'woke' -a term initially to do with black awareness and rights should even be co opted for broader non racial issues. The way in which BLM has been framed by the right wing press, by and large , has led to the use of woke as a sneering insult. See also : liberal as an insult in the US.