What on Earth do I do? Ds in debt

[Realitea]

Just found out my ds who has just finished uni is in rent arrears, about £6k. The guarantor, my father, has early dementia and is heading for another heart attack with the worry of this. Ds has showed no remorse. Burying his head in the sand. I’m on UC so can hardly help myself.
Then this morning I found he also hasn’t paid his car tax so that’ll explain why he isn’t driving his car and has left it at his uni house while he’s now back home. This also means he can’t work as we live in the middle of nowhere. He’s just staying in bed all day now he’s back.
The whole family are so, so worried and angry, I was up all night trying to figure out what to do and sent a pleading email to his agents asking to agree to a payment plan instead of going to court.
I know ds is feeling suicidal about this and very depressed. He needs help but won’t get it.
It’s like he’s hiding from reality.
Dh wants to give him a week to sort something out or kick him out. I don’t think this would be helpful but what is? What do we do? He needs to realise how serious it is and get proactive but also I don’t want to lose it with him as I know he’s not mentally well due to this. To make it worse he’s pretty sure he’s failed his degree.

And. In time Your'll need to talk to him about how he addressed this. Not now, but soon. Sticking your head in the sand never works if the thing isn't going to go away. See how much better he feels for having addressed it. He needs to learn from that, to communicate sooner.

Did you ever check your own student finance account to see if your financial details for the year had been entered and processed for his application?

Shortfalls in student loans are supposed to be made up by the parents (if the student doesn't qualify for the full amount because of parental income). If he didn't receive the full loan, due to your income as you stated it to sfc, did you give him a contribution from household income?

I’m on universal credit! I couldn’t have helped.

But what does your account say? Did they receive your evidence of income?

Oh ... just thought ... does your son upload your financial evidence instead to his own account? Did he ask you for the evidence for last year? I've never done it that way, but I think you can. You'd have given him the documents in that case.

I uploaded evidence of my income and dh did the same. Ds says he’s checked it all and it’s correct, they just paid a lot less in the third year.

It's a bit of a mess OP but not unfixable.

University is hard for many students. My DS among them. He failed his degree and had to resit. To date he is still not working/studying but is quite depressed so I am killing him with kindness for a while. NO way would I throw him out - that wouldn't help anyone.

Lots of great advice upthread. I can't add to the practical advice as we haven't had the same issues but I do think that if grandfather has dementia then his role as guarantor may be invalid - so that could be worth checking out. (we had to be guarantors for DS' last Uni house too and I hated it, a horrible system to be liable for all their housemates too).

Sort the car if you can - either get it taxed so he can use it for work, or tell him to sell it. Cars are expensive to run and keep on the road.

Overall be kind to each other. Yes, your son is an adult but you can help him out and hopefully this will be his wake up call to not be so carefree with finances in future.

Look he's wrong. Or hiding something. Ask him to show you his statements showing his maintenance loan payments.

I can absolutely 100% guarantee that the final year payments for a student getting the full maintenance loan are NOT £1000 a term - unless he has repeated two years or more. Has he?

They pay less depending on when his course date ends. It's usually about 25% less as it doesn't include June July August. So just under £10k reduced by 25% would be still £7k+

The amounts you say, of £1k per term, wouldn't be right. Not for a normal length final year course on max loan amount (so no parental contribution)

Is your joint household income below £25k?

OP, if it's any consolation I got into terrible debt after uni and had bailiffs banging on the door and CCJs. I buried my head, got no help from anyone until I told a neighbour who lent me a book on how to manage money. It changed my life. I took two jobs - day and evening, and worked both until the debt was paid off. It took less than six months. Once the final debt was paid off, the feeling of having money coming in and not being swallowed up by overdraft was ecstatic. I'll never forget it. And I've never been in debt since. It's actually a great lesson to learn at his age. It means he won't ever max out credit cards in the future or go to loan companies.

Are/were you or your DH self employed? Has your household income changed since the 2nd year? Did you get married after your DS finished the 2nd year so now your DH's income has been added to your income?

As PPs keep saying, the 3rd year loan is only reduced by a small amount because it only covers 9 months instead of 12 months. Unless he is an NHS bursary student eg medicine/dentistry, which has different funding?

You would have to have a household income of around £60k for your DS to only get £1k a term.

If the loan was reduced in the 3rd year because your household income is high enough that you are expected to top it up and you didn't, I think morally, the debt partly your fault. Is the issue that you can't afford to help him out but his loan was based on his DSF's income? Although why didn't he speak up sooner and ask for help or apply for a university hardship grant or look for work? You can check for yourself that it is correct using the student finance calculator:

www.gov.uk/student-finance-calculator

He hasn't included his DF's (your ex) income too, has he? Were either you or your DH self employed so the loan is based on your most recent tax return (ie over a year ago) or did your income reduce after the application was made? If so, if your income is significantly less now, SFE will recalculate the loan on your current income. The deadline is looming though (I think it is 31 May). Had he ben overpaid in previous years because your income went up after the application so SFE reduced this year's loan to take back the overpayment?

I'm not sure if it is too late now his exams have finished but has he asked the university if he is eligible for a university hardship grant or loan?

Are you sure your DS is telling the truth about the loan? If he correctly received £6k less this year, you are expected by the government to top up the loan. I do understand that you can't afford to but, nevertheless, his debt is partly down to you and your DH in that case. Are you sure he isn't using the slightly reduced loan in the final term to muddy the waters and hide the real reason for the debt ie he got less funding this year but not £6k less? I would be concerned, coupled with his depression, that the money was spent on something else eg drugs, drinking, gambling.

I do empathise with you if the reason is you were supposed to top up the loan and you couldn't afford to. Lots of parents are in that position. Please don't think I am being judgey or critical of you or your DS, I am just trying to be pragmatic to help you sort this out.

If you are concerned that your DS may have failed his degree, have you discussed with him whether he applied for mitigating circumstances to be taken into account because of his depression and financial stresses? The deadline may have passed for applying now but sometimes late applications can be allowed if the student has mental health issues that meant they couldn't cope with dealing with the mitigating circumstances application. You might get better advice on the HIgher Education board.

@Realitea he is hiding something....
Sorry but he is.
You as a parent can access student finance. I can see what both my sons receive.
The fact he won't show you bank statements would be a big old red flag to me.
I am all for being supportive. But I hate deceit and to be honest he is being deceitful and not giving you the full picture. And your elderly father is going to pay the price.
So be supportive but he has to be honest.

If he won't show you his bank account you don't know what the truth is.

Given the amount of debt, his age, his reluctance to provide you with all the information it could be drugs or gambling, probably gambling as payments to online betting would show up on his statement whereas drugs would just be lots of cash withdrawals as I don't think dealers take online payments.

There is no way his payments would be so low unless there had been a major change to either you or your ex's income.

If he won't be honest about how he got in debt and where the money has gone you can't help him.

You as a parent can access student finance. I can see what both my sons receive.

Are you sure, @Stomacharmeleon ? That would be a breach of GDPR. I'm pretty sure the student can't see the parents' financial information and parents can't see any of the student's application, including how much they have been awarded. I can't log on to check right now but I am 99% sure you can't.

But it's based on parental income intact I think parents do most of the paperwork so surely parents can access the financial details?

The students do most of the paperwork, LethargeMarg. The student and the person/s supporting the student, whether that is 1 or 2 parents or a partner, all have their own separate student loan accounts so everything is kept confidential.

I’ve logged in but it doesn’t tell me anything

no, but it should tell you that your supporting documents are all uploaded.
If correctly processed, and your joint income with your dh was under £25k, then your son should have received approx. £7k rather than £9k - so a £2k approx difference but he doesn't need to use it to support himself this summer.
He may also have received uni bursaries for those from low income families
If he only received 3k then something went wrong - or he is not telling the truth

I think Stomachameleon was mistaken, @Realitea Parents can't see how much the student was awarded. If you know your DH's income, you can use the SF calculator I posted in my previous post to work out how much your DS was entitled to.

Thank you @chesirecat99 i will do that now

This table should give you a rough idea of how much he was entitled to, @Realitea. It's for 22/23 so the loans are a tiny bit more than last year and you need to reduce the total amount by 25% as it was his final year. As you can see, you would have to be earning over £60k for him to only get £1k per term (ie just the non-means tested loan). Either there has been a mistake (or he was overpaid in previous years so his loan has been reduced to rectify that) or he isn't telling the truth. A PP might be correct, perhaps he quit the course earlier in the year.

This was me a few ears ago, it was my ds 2nd year away at uni sharing a flat with his friends. I got a phone call from him and sorted the money out, I was his guarantor. The next call I got was from my ds who was being evicted the next day. We managed to get over there that night and collect him.
It ended up going to court as the guy wanted to make sure he got his money back. He did it took 5 years but it got paid off, the payment set by the courts on what I ould afford.
My ds friends all had comfortable backgrounds and some had already pastime jobs, so instead of paying the rent he spent it instead of telling them no. Added to that was the gambling he did to try to get some money.
I think that if you just make a deal with the agents you need to do it via email so you have proof of your agreement, I think also that they need to by pass your dad as he can't be responsible for the debt in his situation.
My ds stuck his head in the sand but when it came to needing money he got himself a job and eventually got sorted out.

Regretably this screams of a gambling or other expensive addiction. Refusal to show bank statements shows he isnt ready to face up to the situation he is in. If you fix it for him, he will not stop and the problem will become worse plus it will also become everyone else's problem. Point him by all means to step change and other solution providers but no one should be giving him money. This needs to be his problem to fix and until he starts to fix it there is nothing to be done. Living with an addict of any description is hell. If you can find out what the addiction is, please for your own sanity, go to the support group for families. It will help you help him. Good luck

cheshirecat99 has given you good advice. I think you need to persuade your DS to let you see him log in to his student finance account to see how much he was paid. If £1k per term then your household details haven’t been taken into account. Check that your DH has done his bit too on his log in. Then try to phone SFE early next week. Good luck.

While I don't want to advocate for paying what is due, I would review the guarantor agreement that your father signed. Generally if it was signed by your father and not witnessed I believe it renders it null and void (i.e. not enforceable by the courts). As it's a deed it has to be signed in a specific manner- I'm sure it's been mentioned a few times over on the Moneysavingexpert Housing forums so have a look over there.

The debt should still remain with your DS if the guarantor deed is invalid but at least it takes the pressure off your father.