DH spent £45,000 without agreement. Can anything be done?

[Concernedd]

Hi,

Account NC and this is actually my parents rather than myself, but I am writing on behalf of my mother who is worried sick.

My mother and father have a joint bank account, although my mother never uses it. Over the last 2 years my father has sent a man £45,000 from this joint account without telling my mother. Apparently it was for a business deal which has since gone sour.

My father has no legal agreement with this guy and I think it was all a scam. My father sent the money to a company which I can see on Companies House has since been dissolved.

Can anything be done to get the money back? I don’t know if the fact it was a joint account makes any difference, as my mother didn’t consent?

Any advice appreciated.

He doesn't need her consent to spend money from the joint acct (do you need DH's permission to use yours ?)
Have they spoken to action fraud or reported this man to the police if they thing it's a scam?
They could also consider pursuing him through the courts as a civil matter.
How about CAB?

*think not thing

You need to speak to a solicitor OP, they'll need to look at communications between your father and this company.

Best of luck.

Time to take him off the account and your mum can be in charge of finances.

What was he paying for?

You cant get it back from the bank if that's what you were hoping for. He doesnt need her permission to withdraw from the joint account, the bank dont need to check with her. So you wont get compensation.

If this man was doing anytbjng illegal then follow that route. See a solicitor about civil proceedings and contact the police about any criminal activity.

@catfunk Thanks so much for the reply. I suspected as much but I guess I was clutching at straws. I’ve always been very cautious with my money and never had a joint account so don’t understand the mechanics (no DH).

I think this guy just knew my father was a lonely old man and took advantage of him. He set up this company with £1. Within days the first £5k was sent to and he immediately dissolved after the final payment went through. I honestly don’t know what to do. I don’t think action fraud can do anything and I suspect the police will say it’s a civil matter :(

@BeforeGodAndAllTheFish Apparently it was to invest in property. It was meant to be half of a deposit for a shop but I’m not entirely clear as my mother was very upset. The shop was never bought.

@Lockheart I am going to ask my mother to speak to a solicitor in the morning but I just cannot see how this money is retrievable. My mother has given me the log in details for the joint account and I can see over £100,000 worth of suspicious payments. His bank balance is close to zero.

I am honestly so shocked at my fathers behaviour.

OP, take your parents to the bank. It is clear that your father is vulnerable and most banks take vulnerable customers and fraud very seriously now. They might be able to get a refund through the bank.

That sort of investment would be an upfront payment with a lot of documentation.

Are you getting the full story? Is he being honest?

I think you need to have it out with your dad. See all communication he had with this guy. Get him to tell you everything. Then call the police and contact a solicitor.

Your Dad is probably a victim in all of this too, whilst he has been sending the money he is likely to have been scammed / taken advantage of.

The money is probably long gone, but I would recommend the whole family seeking help

www.actionfraud.police.uk/

www.actionfraud.police.uk/victim-resources

Good luck, it is a lot for you all to deal with.

@Akasia It honestly gets worse the more I dig. Some of the other payments I’ve discovered date back 3 years, the most recent one was on April 27 2022 for £4,750. Different accounts but the same guy according to Companies House. I’m not sure a bank can do anything?

@BeforeGodAndAllTheFish There is no documentation. My father is very easy to manipulate. I’ve met the guy he’s been paying a couple of times before. I took an instant dislike to him which I’ve never done before. I’ve looked him up and one of the first things that comes up is a post on Facebook warning that he is a thief. I don’t think there was ever a property. He’s just manipulated my father into being his cash cow. I heard him on the phone the other day asking my father for money because his car had been impounded…

@WhiteFire Thank you. I’ll take a look. My poor mother is devastated as it doesn’t seem they can afford the house now.

Please take the advice of other posters and help your parents speak to their bank. They may very well be able to help. If you don't ask you will never know.

I can’t think of a subtle way to ask this, so I’ll just ask. Is your father bisexual? What is this chap’s leverage? I don’t want to worry you unnecessarily but it strikes me there might be more to this. Most scams are romance scams.

@SausagePourHomme I will recommend my mother does this. It is worth a shot and there is nothing to lose at this stage. Thank you.

Also don't won't to add to your worries OP, but in hindsight we think behaviour similar to this was probably an early sign of a family member's dementia - not similar enough to be able to give you any advice on how to resolve the financial aspects, but I just wanted to share in case it is something you might want to be vigilant for.

Might be worth a read of this article on a similar situation. I would absolutely raise it with the bank- there may be some possibility of reclaiming the money from them and presumably you also need to ensure no more is paid to the scammer. Sorry, it sounds an awful situation.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/70c54968-c23f-11ec-8e50-d692b1fbef48?shareToken=79b6482917236bc43f3e1ce4c01c2b40

Definitely get him checked for early stages of alzeimers or dementia.

Sorry your mother's going through this.

It makes no difference that your mother didn't consent. Unless your father stole it from her bank account in her sole name. She could divorce him though, even if they stay together, to disengage the finances so that any bad decisions or debts are solely his.

@Sortilege I’ve considered this too. My father does seem infatuated with this man but I don’t think there is anything romantic. The guy clearly has no affection for my father and is in a long term relationship with multiple kids. Nothing about him makes me think he is gay or bi.

I honestly think it is just because my father is lonely and easy to manipulate. He worked abroad is whole adult life and finally retired 8 years ago. Retirement hit him hard and he felt he lacked any purpose. Nearly all his friends in the UK have passed away and his last close friend was severely brain damaged in a car accident.

I believe he thought this guy could be a good friend as they bonded over mutual interests but this guy has just groomed him and sees him as a cash machine. He is so easy to manipulate - I am ashamed to admit it, but even as a young kid I knew I could manipulate him to give me anything I wanted, toys, sweets, days out, money etc.

That’s my theory at least.

Has your dad got any vulnerabilities or care and support needs? Any cognitive decline or mild cognitive impairment? Definitely report to police, why wouldn’t you? And if he has any vulnerabilities then social care should get involved in an safeguarding capacity. I have had cases similar to this before and the police and bank can do things to stop someone being targeted again. Ultimately in one case I supported family to get Deputyship through the courts as the person was involved in an ongoing scam that took all his money and he refused to recognise it as a scam and refused to let any family have access to his accounts. Sadly (for him) he was deemed to lack capacity to manage his own affairs due to cognitive impairment/mental health but at least he’s now protected as his bank accounts are managed on his behalf by family

Repoort this man if you know who it is-is your father forgtful or not feeling ok or was just outright scammed

i wouldnt be too hard on him

Make appointment to see bank manager with both your parents. Also ring police as it may be fraud if he was promised something he never got. Get your DM a separate bank account.

@Bimster Thank you, that is quite similar to my father’s story. I work in a journalism adjacent industry. My boss is a Times columnist and weirdly enough I have actually met Jill through him before.

Thanks to everyone who has given advice. I have to get up early tomorrow for work so am going to switch off and get ready for bed. I will check this thread in the morning if anyone is kind enough to leave any other thoughts.

Hi OP,

Over the last few years, banking codes of practice have been updated so banks have an obligation to try and recover funds and, in some instances, replace the funds of customers who have been the victim of a scam, tho exactly which rules apply depend on exactly what happened.

From the details you've given, this may fall under the Authorised Push Payment Scam Code, if it is not considered to be straightforward fraud.

www.natwest.com/business/security/app-code.html

It is important the he / your mum tells the bank as soon as possible. They should do everything they can to help.

Fingers crossed, it's a horrible thing to happen, I hope it has a good outcome.

@Concernedd
Sadly I knew of a vulnerable, lonely old man who was groomed by a local family to where he lived.
I did try to warn the adult child of the old boy, but couldn’t find the surname.
It was out and out grooming.

When the old
boy died, a valuable property was left to the groomers.

people have zero morals, taking money off the lonely and elderly.
It’s sickening behaviour.