DH spent £45,000 without agreement. Can anything be done?

[Concernedd]

Hi,

Account NC and this is actually my parents rather than myself, but I am writing on behalf of my mother who is worried sick.

My mother and father have a joint bank account, although my mother never uses it. Over the last 2 years my father has sent a man £45,000 from this joint account without telling my mother. Apparently it was for a business deal which has since gone sour.

My father has no legal agreement with this guy and I think it was all a scam. My father sent the money to a company which I can see on Companies House has since been dissolved.

Can anything be done to get the money back? I don’t know if the fact it was a joint account makes any difference, as my mother didn’t consent?

Any advice appreciated.

Does Companies House not list an address for him?

Oh dear. You are not really getting anywhere are you OP. They just don't want to know, do they?

please please please tell your parents , it may not be fraud but it is a scam and will likely be covered under the banks fraud and scam measures. many more people are targeted by scams these days than having money stolen from them and banks are required to handle this appropriately.

they would be literally crazy not to ask the bank about it, many people are reimbursed large amounts for scams like this.

Home addresses are very often not in the public domain. If a company has a different registered office address, it is completely normal to list that as the service address, publicly. That said, his address may be on the incorporation documents if he is a shareholder.

Do you think their denial is covering embarrassment or stubbornness that their judgement is being called into question. Are they still in touch with the bloke? You can still report your concerns to Action Fraud.

www.psr.org.uk/our-work/app-scams/

"I’ve fallen victim to an APP scam, what should I do?

If you have fallen victim to an APP scam, you should contact your bank immediately to report it. It is important to do this as soon as possible, as your bank may still be able to stop the transaction or trace the money.

If your bank is a signatory to the Contingent Reimbursement Model (CRM) Code, it should begin the process to investigate your case and look at reimbursing you for your loss, as long as you acted appropriately. Your bank must assess your case under the Code and give you a decision on reimbursement; it should also provide you with its reasoning.

Even if your bank isn’t a signatory to the CRM Code, you should still report any fraud to your bank as soon as you discover it. Your bank may have other policies in place to assist you."

Sorry if this sounds condescending. Would Mum talk to a consumer advocate like Gloria Huniford or Angela Rippon say? They do a morning show called rip off on BBC and could feel more approachable than any official routes because of the familiarity.

Police, actionfraud, bank.

any record, emails, phone calls, voice messages? Write everything down.

i’d also see a solicitor, discuss what you can do, and also investigate setting up power of attorney so you can call banks, police etc on your parents behalf.

def call police first. To start this man may be known, secondly if they can and do act, the sooner action is taken the better

I've used action fraud and they were very helpful. It's definitely worth reporting because it is fraud as he hasn't got what he thought he was paying for. Even if he signed up willingly it was misrepresented and so fraud.

I thought Action Fraud was being replaced because its so useless? It was just taking details and doing nothing with them in many cases.

Just report directly to the police OP saying you are concerned that two older and possibly vulnerable people are being targetted by crooks.

You could go to the bank or police for advice. They should be able to direct you to how to deal with it.
Regardless of whether your father has a medical issue or not that might explain what he has done, there are lots of people scammed out of money daily.

You parents might not think of how easy it would be for this man to “disappear” by changing his number, account details etc. They likely can’t get over the embarrassment of it but it happens so frequently that they would soon be reassured by the bank.

Its possible that your father (and possible your mother) have a reason to explain why ut has happened that they don’t want to disclose? The man could be blackmailing your father over something that your father/parents do not want to talk
about.

I’ve told my mother to go to the bank but she is adamant they won’t do anything. Is there anything I could say to convince her?

I would ask her how she would feel if it had happened to Great Aunt Doris, or to her friend Betty.

My parents are refusing to go to the bank as they insist it’s not fraud and my father gave the money willingly

They could easily find that's true even if they did approach the bank, but overall you can only advise and can't force them to act, especially since it seems they do have capacity

It's possible that they're just embarrassed or that there's more to this they'd rather you didn't know, but either way it may be time to step back now and accept they have a responsibility to sort themselves out

Go straight to the police about the potential scam. You may not get anything back but hopefully the police can catch the scammers.

@Concernedd
They are still over 50% convinced that they are going to get a return for their investment.
My parents are planning on cornering the guy somehow and getting him to acknowledge the debt. I don’t think this will work. My father only has a phone number for him. If they spook him he could change his phone number and that would be it. We have no address for him and will never find him again.
They are both delusional.
Would you say that your mother is easily dominated? It seems to me your father has done a number on her critical faculties.

He is too proud to admit he has made a huge mistake and will keep on protecting his self image regardless of the consequences.

You mentioned that they are in danger of losing their house.
Ask them what plans they have in place for when they lose it.
Where will they live?
How will they live day to day?
You need to try to pin them down on the specifics of their plans.

Is there anyone they trust and look up to?
Could you involve such a person here?

Would they listen to a police officer if one could come around and talk to them?

Could you pretend that the bank needs their help in laying the foundations for a big operation to unearth a widespread (foreign?) scam, and they just need to share the details of what has happened here in order to provide essential documentation?

This might massage your father's egregiously misplaced sense of pride.

I'd think a priority is finding this man's address.
Have you asked what their plan is if they lose the house?

A few years ago my Dad lost all his saving in a scam, but that wasn't enough he borrowed money from some of my siblings who lent him the money in secret as he'd asked, he borrowed money from some of his siblings and he borrowed money from the bank and the credit union. He finally admitted to my mother what was going on but he still was trying to convince himself that it wasn't a scam and wanted Mum to give him some money - they had separate finances thankfully. She blew the whistle on him...was absolutely terrified, Dad's drinking was off the chart too, he was aggressive and delusional even when presented with the facts he still didn't believe he was being scammed. Police could do nothing as they thought the man who was scamming dad was also being scammed and so was a victim too.

At some point, the fight stops being about getting the money back (we tried the police, action fraud etc - they did nothing) but convincing your dad to face reality, it's a hard battle and they want to continue to pay just in case that big payday is still coming. We had loads of evidence for dad but finally, the thing that worked was a request for money to cover an HMRC bill for future earnings - my dad knew HMRC would never request payment for future earnings.

Still, we got dad to agree to my brother having access to his bank accounts and they were checked frequently and dad finally move on.

It caused long-term damage to my relationship with my siblings. I refused to pay them and my auntie for the money my dad borrowed from them, they lent him the money not me - they didn't ask me for my agreement, so I refused to pay - so when all was said and done I was the one in the wrong and dad was sympathised with as the hero who got through it all. My parents never knew the impact his situation had on my relationship with my siblings which I suppose was always grounded in controlling conditions, I finally learned to say no to them and they couldn't forgive me.

Hope you can move on from this op - it's so upsetting, but it's only money people are getting upset about, it could have been so much worse.

Ring 101 & get local police to speak to them, if they won't go to the bank

It's a scam

“Get local police to speak to them”?

thankfully law enforcement doesn’t quite work like that in this country

I hope local police do still work like that. Asking the police for support to convince your Dad that he is being scammed is a really powerful weapon you can use. Unfortunately the police can do very little to get the money back but talking to victims and helping them see that they are being scammed is hopefully one thing the local police can/will do.

Police