DH spent £45,000 without agreement. Can anything be done?

[Concernedd]

Hi,

Account NC and this is actually my parents rather than myself, but I am writing on behalf of my mother who is worried sick.

My mother and father have a joint bank account, although my mother never uses it. Over the last 2 years my father has sent a man £45,000 from this joint account without telling my mother. Apparently it was for a business deal which has since gone sour.

My father has no legal agreement with this guy and I think it was all a scam. My father sent the money to a company which I can see on Companies House has since been dissolved.

Can anything be done to get the money back? I don’t know if the fact it was a joint account makes any difference, as my mother didn’t consent?

Any advice appreciated.

The bank and police haven't been contacted yet, how can you possibly say it's gone and that's that?

He did not just give money in the context of a business did he? He was giving money for personal expenses too (you mention his car being impounded and asking your father for money)

Go with your parents to the bank, this issue must be flagged ASAP
Other people could have been scammed too

Move some money into a new account
The bank will assist with this

Secondly, get Power of attorney set up for both of them

Setting up on companies house for £1 is not unusual.

i wish it wasn’t so, but I work in a related field and I would be very surprised if any possibility of redress whatsover

ESP as he was giving money for personal purposes too (the op mentions the impounded car)

Is it £45k or £100k?

Your father is likely feeling quite embarrassed so maybe shutting down and not giving you the full information: the more information you can get from him though the better as if he were lied to the police may be able to help.
I appreciate it is easy to look at your mother as the victim, but in truth they both are. Try not to be angry at your dad. He is just as much the victim here.
see what documentations he has- maybe business plans, investor pitch documents? Take them all to the police

I wonder if you can at least get him struck off and banned from being a company director, at least to remove one rung of the ladder for others?

The fact he was able to set up on companies house indicates he’s not currently barred or ongoing investigation for another matter

Of course you go to the police - why on earth wouldn't you? If it was for an investment in property and there is no property then its a scam and there should be a criminal investigation to establish fraud. It sounds as though there may also be grounds for disqualifying the scammer from acting as a company director.

Bogus tradesmen get jailed for over-charging pensioners for work, why on earth would you think that this wouldn't be a matter for the police???

There may well be a civil claim as well but if you get the police to investigate it will strengthen any civil claim. If the guy is worth sueing of course.

Good question.

And how old is the father?

And why did the bank not stop or question him when making these payments now? Its almost impossible to transfer such large amounts without your bank checking up on you now.

@LouisCatorze Yes- it's the asking for money related to personal things like an impounded car-- - to me it kind of has a blackmail feel about it- especially as OPs mum totally unaware- unless the chap had dementia or something- surely the subject of investment etc would have been brought up at some point. The fact it wasn't a 'one off' but has been carrying on and on - I'm sorry but I think there is somewhat more to this than a business/scam thing gone wrong if he had his faculties he surely would have picked up on this after a couple of payments.

I'm so sorry your dad has been taken advantage of by this unscrupulous scumbag!
One potential way to protect him from other scammers, and possibly this man too, is to install some kind of phone guard. My elderly Dad has it in the UK, to stop him being bothered by telesales people etc. His is set up through Sky (Sky phone shield, if you want to look it up), but I expect other people do it too - the way it works is that only a few numbers automatically connect, and you have to agree to allow those.

I hope the banks can help, but I also agree that you should go to the police since the man is known to you!

You need to state that they are very vulnerable, not of full mental capacity, that they have been basically groomed, that the bank haven't flagged such large transactions to the same man

The bit about grooming is probably true - the rest may or may not be

I agree that it's worth at least tryng the bank, but not even they can protect people against themselves; there has to come a point where people are free to make their own choices and live with the consequences, even though it's a shame when they take others down with them

OP, not sure if you are back online yet but there's been great advice from lots of folks above.

To summarise a plan of action going forward:

1. Contact the bank immediately to alert them to the fraud. There IS a chance the bank will refund all or part, because the payments are so large they should have triggered fraud checks. Your father is older and (despite your thinking he is easy to manipulate in general) the point is that prior to this he hasn't paid over £100K out to fraudsters - so it IS out of character. These payments should have raised red flags with the bank and they may WELL acknowledge they've been at fault and assist you. In addition you will also want to discuss with your mum and dad putting in appropriate spending caps and controls on all their banking to ensure no repeats of this.

2. Contact the police next, via ActionFraud. Give them all the info you can, details of the ID of the person, etc. They will likely be able to send a specially trained officer to interview your dad and get the full story. It's important in case this guy has other victims (very probable) and to prevent him doing this again in future. It's especially important that he's barred from opening other companies to dupe people. And with luck they may be able to build a criminal case.

3. Speak to dad and try to get him medically assessed as to possible Alzheimer's/cognitive decline. At the end of the day it's not about blaming him or shaming him, just trying to assess if he is medically vulnerable at this stage of life, and if so whether anything can be done to support him.

I'm so sorry for you all, it's such a horrible crime that your dad has been a victim of and he has all my sympathy, as does your poor mum. They're lucky to have your support. Wish you all the best.

With a scam they create an impression of a business arrangement. The other things come along as the victim gets suckered in more and more. The victim throws good money after bad to keep the business alive.

Paying for the car seems sensible and part of the business if it is presented that way. Of course there isn't a car. Just a greedy conman spinning a web of lies. Once their victim has used up all their money the conman will move onto the next one.

Thanks everyone for your support. I have been reading them but haven’t had time to reply
as I have been in and out of meetings.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to offer their advice. I will continue to check on the thread periodically throughout the day but won’t be home until about 8PM this evening.

if there is a recent transaction then there will be bank details so dont take any excuses from action fraud they need to get on to it immediately.

I'd speak to the bank and put your mum in charge of the bank account and remove your father's name. He clearly cannot be responsible for their money, I'd never trust him again. I'd transfer a little amount over to a new account in his own name, each month.

Your DM should move half of the remaining money to an account in her name

The OP already said there is hardly anything left. And really... half? You think she she only move half?

Mum needs to remove all his access to money. He can have an allowance which fits their budget and once he spends it, he can wait till the next allowance.

Sometimes, that's what you need to do when someone has lost their faculties and cant manage money for themselves.

It is very easy from the outside to see this as a scam but we are all vulnerable. How many of us have read a thread on MN, offered advice/sympathy only to find a few pages later that there is the 'we are going to take this down as it is a PBP' message from MNHQ.

People who run scams do it as their job. They put work into it. They work out the buttons to press to keep the money flowing in.

Users are not much different (and how may people haven't got sucked in by one at some time). The mentality is the same you have something and I want it. The something could be money, time, use of your car. It doesn't matter, the mindset is the same.

The mentality is the same you have something and I want it. The something could be money, time, use of your car. It doesn't matter, the mindset is the same.

You're right, posting on MN is exactly the same as giving them £45k, and people would do the exact same checks for both actions because "they are the same mindset".

@HellyR not sure if you were agreeing with me or not.

In my first paragraph I was saying that it is easy for anyone to fall for something that turns out to be fake.

Scammers are good at it. They also target people. I constantly warn my DM against engaging with cold callers, phishing emails etc. I tell her never to think she is cleverer than them. Just don't engage.

I am also aware that I could become vulnerable. Scams are going to rise as more and more people get direct access to their private pension pots.

A family member was scammed into giving up her home to someone that groomed her online. We spoke to the police and although they agreed she had been coerced, there was nothing legally they or the bank could do. She now subsists in social housing and on benefits, the small income left when her partner died also went; but she is still convinced he’s a nice gentleman and will come back from his sea voyage and marry her 😠

Agreed @Halsall-it does sound like he’s not got to that point yet. Took for that poor chap to finally lose his house for the penny to drop unfortunately.

Let’s hope OP’s interventions will help prevent it getting to that stage - although they do mention DP not being able to afford their home now.

The parallels in a lot of these other cases of financial abuse do tend to show grooming over periods of years, where you can see how trapped victims get & brainwashed really into believing what they are doing will come eventually come good. Along with huge amounts of emotional blackmail, pressure & manipulation.

I think the general perception, for myself as much as anyone else, is that a scam occurs, it’s a one off thing, you get burned & you learn not to fall for it again.

Yet here younger family members are stunned as I would be, when they see how long the abuse has been going on for, with payments being made over literally years.

Wonder if showing your DF any of these awful examples from others could be a way to help him realise what he’s been tricked into OP?

And how these crooks are forming deliberate abusive & long term relationships to profiteer & exploit.

As PP’s have said - that really could happen to any of us. As we’re all human & all have vulnerabilities.

Just listened to the You & Yours link btw & wld def recommend a listen.