Why is children's behaviour worse these days?

[salviapages]

I recently retrained as a primary teacher, did placements in a few schools then worked as a supply teacher so seen a wide range and I've been shocked at the behaviour. Nothing like how I remember kids in my class at primary being.

Every teacher I've spoken to about this says behaviour has gotten worse over the years and I've seen mumsnetters say the same, including in the current thread about teachers leaving the profession.

So - why is this? Have we changed how we raise children? Have schools changed? Why the rise in bad behaviour?

I'm a working single mum with a sen child. Reading some of these comments I'm clearly to blame for badly behaved children !!

@Blinkingbatshit please show me the evidence that’s it’s working parents fault?

I’m 40+ and can look back at my Mum working (I even had to walk home alone and open the front door by myself) and I wasn’t badly behaved (I’m a bit boring to be honest)

My 19 year old daughter is also well adjusted she never been in trouble and again is well behaved and respectful? She is at uni and is quite shocked by the number of people who can’t clean up after themselves and actually a bit of arrogant….she has no idea whether they come from working parents or had a SAHP - it’s irrelevant.

Many parents don’t spend enough time with their dc. They don’t see much of their dc from end of school to bedtime. Even if they do, their dc is in front of a screen. Parents say no but then quickly give in. Also entitled parents raise entitled dc.

The way we view how we expect children to behave developmentally (as parents) is different now. There is no ‘seen and not heard’ we’ve moved on. The education system has not. Class sizes are bigger. Children find the days more draining now after covid and no social interaction for two whole developing years. Honestly they’re getting rid of break times for many of them too. There are so many reasons kids might be finding it harder now to sit still. If it is the case that it’s because they fear adults less then good. Then we need to change the system.

@Hospedia

Inclusion has also had an impact on behavioural standards. Previously children with clear additional needs would have been sent to special schools if not institutions.

I'm so glad we don't lock disabled children away nowadays so that don't inconvenience non-disabled people.

Instead of blaming children with additional needs for the (imagined) behavioural problems of an entire generation, perhaps direct them at the government who has chronically underfunded schools.

Definitely blame the government. But they also created the problem with inclusion. It was a good idea,implemented badly and not funded properly. As usual.

The issue with it is that many SEN provisions have been closed down. So you might have one school serving several towns/cities with years long waiting lists. The demand gets higher,their criteria get stricter, the waiting lists get even longer. It's a vicious circle.Even if everyone is in agreement (parents,mainstream school,SEN school) nothing can be done until the child is y5 for example. That child btw had absolutely no behavioural issues. He was good as gold.

Due to lack of adequate provision, children that are very academically able but unable to handle mainstream have no where to go. Most SEN schools are SLD or behavioural.

In my opinion, it actually increased the stigma of a child attending a SEN school. It is seen as something only for very extreme needs/behaviours. "Jimmy down the road goes to mainstream, so your kid must be really bad to go to x school". Actual real life comments with names changed of course.

Excluding children with disabilities and impairments because it was easy and no one gave a fuck and no one wanted to deal with them or see them was a complete disgrace.

Forcing children with disabilities and impairments to attend schools in a completely unsuitable environment is also a disgrace. That's where we ended up.

For a lot of parents of children with SEN the choices are in name only, probably why so many have resorted to home schooling.

Also I think some people need to realise that just because your child is well behaved doesn't mean they are well adjusted. I was a very well behaved, obedient child - a pleasure to have in class, my teachers used to say. Never any trouble. And I am - and always was - a mess of anxiety and other problems.

For half term, I have taken my child to a (pricey) activity in an expensive private school. The school is in the posh/naice end of the wider area. I can tell a lot of these kids know each other from school, but I don't know if it's that exact school. Anyway, it's been worth the cash. The sessions are good. The parents are nice. But interesting observations:

• kids who are older than mine (6) were being dressed by parents. One kid sat next to mine and did all the movements my toddler does when I'm dressing him. It's easy to spot since the children dress/change at the same time, and I'm one of the few parents who is not assisting. My kid is one of the youngest.
• one very unfortunate exchange in the dressing room between a mother and her daughter (daughter showing off in front of friends by belittling/being sarcastic towards the mother, and the mother laughing along with it. I had sympathy for the mother but I could see that child also spoke to some friends with that tone too)
• parent politely asking their toddler to not put the belongings of another person into their mouth, with explanations of why they shouldn't (obviously fell on deaf ears. I have a toddler. I don't ask in these situations, I will take the item from him say something like 'no, that's not yours' or whatever)
• a kid crying when the instructor raised their voice at them (for their own safety!). The parent calming their kid didn't help (a lot 'of oh I'm sorry, that was quite scary wasn't it' etc... erm cuddle them of you need to, but also tell your kid to listen to instructions and not faff about with risky equipment)
• just a lot of explaining of every process, every decision made, all the options, etc. it's weird because in some ways. Maybe I'm just a witch, but I find it all bit much. I do wonder if this is overwhelming for the kids, but I'm sure they're fine and I'm just a witch who explains things sparingly lol.

I don't know about generalised behavioural issues in kids 'nowadays', but it's been 'interesting'. These kids weren't 'bad' just 'inappropriately (or not at all) challenged' by the parents. I've been to similar clubs across the wider area but this one has been a bit of an eye opener.

I doubt anyone on here is advocating scaring children are they?

OK to clarify then, I am certainly not advocating scaring dc under any circumstances.

children that are very academically able but unable to handle mainstream have no where to go

Describes my child. Mainstream school was overwhelming and distressing for him but he is very very academic. Consequently I home educate him and he is much happier. There was no suitable alternative school he could have attended.

@potterpants
“ If I could go back I'd save enough money I didn't need to work until at least dc are slightly older. For me preferably once primary is out the way. I think dc need us more than society wants to admit it. I don't exclude fathers either but I do believe in the majority of the cases it's mums (and mums together supporting each other) that can really make changes to dc behaviour.”

I think that’s really unfair. Why can’t dads take a role in this? It seems we keep beating mums up about working/not working when this is only half the parental influence (in a lot of cases). The sooner we reduce the gender pay gap, ensure both sexes can get equal parental leave without being penalised, the sooner we stop this horrible pressure on women to have to do everything. Why do you say it’s mostly mums that can change childrens’ behaviour? Why isn’t there the pressure of saving up so dads can take more leave and support the children until primary? It’s these attitudes that still prevail and get passed on to our children that won’t stop until we do something about it. I would hate for my daughter to have to carry this burden in the future.

@Penzinola

children that are very academically able but unable to handle mainstream have no where to go

Describes my child. Mainstream school was overwhelming and distressing for him but he is very very academic. Consequently I home educate him and he is much happier. There was no suitable alternative school he could have attended.

I'm so sorry. I'm sure you're happy your son is happy and thriving, but it shouldn't be this way. Especially when so many parents don't have the possibility to homeschool either.

It's one of the issues with inclusion that no one really wants to talk about.

@Penzinola

Why? My parents both worked , funnily enough both of their parents worked - i work as does my husband…in a multi generation of working parents (both sides) there isn’t any issues. Grandparents raised 5 well adjusted children now nearing retirement and my parents raised 3 girls - who all work whilst being good parents?

Believe me I wasn't having a go at working parents. I work myself albeit part time and freelance. My son went to nursery. But I just think objectively it is bound to be better for children in the early years to be cared for by their parent who is happy in their SAH role than in a nursery. That's only taking the wellbeing of the child into account though. If finances don't allow for it OR neither parent would be happy being at home then of course it is better for the child to be in childcare.

I just know that I used to feel lonely having a working mum (she had to work so this not me blaming her).

Sorry (a bit) I get quite defensive as I’ve made the decision to be a working parent. I’ve always asked my children what works for all of us - and together as a family ensured that we’ve both been available and work will always always comes second. (For both Dad and Mum)

For example my eldest did struggle with her mental health due to impact of covid and alevels - I took time out work to be there for her - and together we supported her.

I hate seeing working parents and in the same breath SAHP being blamed - it could be many reasons , making it one groups seemingly fault just seems a race to the bottom. We need to take a full step back and see what the MANY issues it could be. Rather than a default it’s that groups fault.

No boundaries, there's a reason why kids behave better for nannies and childminders!

Parents think their little darlings can do no wrong, they're just very spirited children
Oh God yes, the 'spirited'. 🤣
It's like the 'picky eater'.

Entitled parents, 'gentle' parents, lazy parents, parents whose need to be their childs 'friend' guides all they do. You'll see those ones over on the teen boards. They're the ones providing alcohol for their young teens because "they all do it" and "it's something teens have to do"
No boundaries, no consequences and a belief that they and their childs wants and needs trumps all else. 🤷‍♀️

@Bonjovispjs

No boundaries, there's a reason why kids behave better for nannies and childminders!

By that reasoning they'd behave better for teachers too so OP wouldn't be able to observe said bad behaviour.

In my experience some parents expect schools to do their parenting for them. If the child is having problems, they will complain ‘the school hasn’t offered enough support’.
But if you don’t put things into place at home, it won’t work at school either….

You see it on MN a lot - parent is having X issue with child - response is usually ‘what support is the school giving ?’

Pretty obvious really - the rot started when they abolished corporal punishment in schools. The Welsh and Scottish governments banning smacking was idiotic. Also, kids are pandered to today like they are royalty.

I grew up in the 60s and 70s when teachers were respected. There were never more than one or two bad kids in a class and they were swiftly dealt with. I was hardly ever smacked at home because I didn't want to get into trouble and feared the consequences.

Last week I saw a small child rolling on the floor in Tesco having a massive tantrum, screaming his head off. The mother just standing there ignoring him! I wouldn't have dared behave like that as a child!

I was at primary school in the 80s i remember there being a load of horrible little sh*ts in my class who were dragged up, i was pushed into barbed wire, sworn at, pushed around. At my secondary school the kids would compete to make the cover teachers cry. My mum was a teacher in the 70s in a deprived estate, she said the kids behaviour was awful, years later she'd recognise the names of the kids she taught in the 'in the courts' section of our county newspaper! She was never surprised which ones turned up in jail! I think it's easy to forget the detail and romanticise the past when actually there were plenty of poorly behaved kids back then too!

There has been a lot of behavioural and SEN children in the nursery I work at recently. Some of that will be covid related but the numbe of SEN such as ADSD and autism has had a marked increase. This makes day to day life in the nursery hard as the children without issues don't get the same level of attention from staff.

I think society expecting both parents to go back to work when children are little more than babies and parents not being allowed to disapline with a smack have had impacts too. Obviously beating children isn't acceptable but a smack is something most mammals offer their wayward babies because they simply don't understand reason yet.

Pretty obvious really - the rot started when they abolished corporal punishment in schools

I really thought your post was satire but sadly it doesn't seem to be.

Yeah corporal punishment really did wonders for the emotionally detached and distant adults of my grandfather's generation. Really fantastic. But hey at least they knew not to have a tantrum in the supermarket. I mean as long as all looked good on the outside, who really cares about what was going on on the inside!

@Wandamakesporridge

In my experience some parents expect schools to do their parenting for them. If the child is having problems, they will complain ‘the school hasn’t offered enough support’. But if you don’t put things into place at home, it won’t work at school either….

You see it on MN a lot - parent is having X issue with child - response is usually ‘what support is the school giving ?’

Sometimes depending on the issue, the school will have staff trained and experienced and resources in dealing with that issue ,whereas parents don't.

Children with best outcomes (SEN or not) , are the ones where the school and parents work together,have built trust and good relationships and support each other.

@Onionpatch

Most children are just as well behaved as ever. The thing with bad behaviour is it only takes a tiny shift in the overall number behaving badly to have a big impact.

I agree.

I mean I am from a generation where two childreny age murdered another child. There have always been little shits even back in the day.

@PandoraRocks

Pretty obvious really - the rot started when they abolished corporal punishment in schools. The Welsh and Scottish governments banning smacking was idiotic. Also, kids are pandered to today like they are royalty.

I grew up in the 60s and 70s when teachers were respected. There were never more than one or two bad kids in a class and they were swiftly dealt with. I was hardly ever smacked at home because I didn't want to get into trouble and feared the consequences.

Last week I saw a small child rolling on the floor in Tesco having a massive tantrum, screaming his head off. The mother just standing there ignoring him! I wouldn't have dared behave like that as a child!

I might've been afraid of them (or the consequences at home) , but I never respected the ones that were arseholes. Getting a slap over the face for running in the corridor didn't breed respect, just contempt and hate.

If children as a group have changed then surely so have adults/teachers.

There were some awful teachers when I was in school who clearly hated children and their job, any minor thing a child did wrong they got berated for, teachers were clearly coming in in bad moods and taking it out on the kids.

It seems that these days more adults struggle with poor mental health etc, don't respond to stress well and they also have the same addictions to mobile phones etc. My son says half of his teachers use their phones in class constantly!

I start gentle parenting style, but I escalate quickly if no one listens. My DH says I'm quite embarrassing sometimes when I'm strict with the kids. I don't say things I don't mean. My pet hate is people trying to do parent with "if you do that again we are going home", child repeats it and they do nothing or say it again... and again and again.

In a playground a child kicked my DC on purpose and I knew who the child was with as it was just us in the play area. The adult ( not the parent) locked with me in that spilt second after it happened and they did nothing. They didn't apologize, tell off the child , or check my child was ok. My Dc was crying. Maybe the parent would of reacted differently and maybe this lack of authority is the issue.