Why is children's behaviour worse these days?

[salviapages]

I recently retrained as a primary teacher, did placements in a few schools then worked as a supply teacher so seen a wide range and I've been shocked at the behaviour. Nothing like how I remember kids in my class at primary being.

Every teacher I've spoken to about this says behaviour has gotten worse over the years and I've seen mumsnetters say the same, including in the current thread about teachers leaving the profession.

So - why is this? Have we changed how we raise children? Have schools changed? Why the rise in bad behaviour?

Yes, parenting has changed, but I also think a lot of parents are much more openly anti-authority and anti-teacher in front of their children, and often encourage their children not to expect to do as they're told, believe whatever excuses and nonsense their children come up with about how they weren't misbehaving and the teacher was picking on them, and do not support the school's behaviour policies.

I'm in secondary schools and the behaviour is wild atm. It's been getting worse for years and years but the pandemic has caused a really sharp nosedive.

@Moser85

If children as a group have changed then surely so have adults/teachers.

There were some awful teachers when I was in school who clearly hated children and their job, any minor thing a child did wrong they got berated for, teachers were clearly coming in in bad moods and taking it out on the kids.

It seems that these days more adults struggle with poor mental health etc, don't respond to stress well and they also have the same addictions to mobile phones etc. My son says half of his teachers use their phones in class constantly!

Strange since in most schools teachers aren't even allowed to have their phones on them,much less use it constantly in class , due to safeguarding rules/policies.

I also think technology is bad for parents too. Lots of times I have seen children behaving badly because their parent is on their phone and not interacting with them or dealing with them.

E.g. I was at a hospital appointment with one of my DCs and there was a little boy aged about 3 or 4 running around obviously hyper and quite bored. I can understand, as my DS was exactly like that. Except - his mum was hardly interacting with him and was often on her phone leaving him to run around, just occasionally calling him back. I was amazed when at one point he ran into an old woman with a walking stick and was just shoving her from behind. The old woman looked quite shocked. The mum did nothing about it! I know it’s hard at that age but you have to be on it. You can’t leave them to run crazy.
DS had a lot of hospital appointments as a toddler and I would have a bag full of books, toys, snacks, to keep him entertained, or would just walk round and round with him. Occasionally he might bump into someone by accident and I would be very apologetic. There’s no way I could have been on my phone ignoring him.
So maybe it’s an issue with parents being addicted to their phones too….

As a primary teacher I have noticed a big difference in the last decade I have been teaching. In particular, the children's attention span. They no longer watch TV programmes but clips on youtube/phones. Many of them play games for hours-fortnite, roblocks etc and talk about it at school constantly. Sadly many play videogames that are 18+, grand theft auto etc.
Also have facebook accounts, mobile phones. A lot have said they have had unwanted pictures, calls from people they dont know and feel frightened. Some online games they can talk to friends but also on things like call of duty anyone can swear, shout, talk to them.
Some are up on tablets late at night and see adverts for horror films and then get nightmares or simply not enough sleep. Finally parents spending a lot of time on their phones. To be honest I feel like I'm guilty of that too, I'm going to change my phone so i dont have apps etc. I want to be more present with my kids.

Obviously beating children isn't acceptable but a smack is something most mammals offer their wayward babies because they simply don't understand reason yet.

Is this a joke?

Furst, smacking is wrong to begin with. We don't hit vulnerable members of society, or any members of society for that matter, as a way of encouraging them to behave how we want them to behave.

And secondly, if a "wayward baby" is too young to be reasoned with then they are also too fucking young to understand why they're being smacked.

Fuck me. I don't know what's more worrying, the fact you believe this to be true or the fact you work in fucking childcare. I sincerely hope you're nowhere near any of my children.

@Hospedia

Obviously beating children isn't acceptable but a smack is something most mammals offer their wayward babies because they simply don't understand reason yet.

Is this a joke?

Furst, smacking is wrong to begin with. We don't hit vulnerable members of society, or any members of society for that matter, as a way of encouraging them to behave how we want them to behave.

And secondly, if a "wayward baby" is too young to be reasoned with then they are also too fucking young to understand why they're being smacked.

Fuck me. I don't know what's more worrying, the fact you believe this to be true or the fact you work in fucking childcare. I sincerely hope you're nowhere near any of my children.

Agreed!

Strange since in most schools teachers aren't even allowed to have their phones on them,much less use it constantly in class , due to safeguarding rules/policies.

I'm in Ireland and they are allowed.
They're not supposed to be using them for personal use however..but they do have them and use them.

@PandoraRocks

Pretty obvious really - the rot started when they abolished corporal punishment in schools. The Welsh and Scottish governments banning smacking was idiotic. Also, kids are pandered to today like they are royalty.

I grew up in the 60s and 70s when teachers were respected. There were never more than one or two bad kids in a class and they were swiftly dealt with. I was hardly ever smacked at home because I didn't want to get into trouble and feared the consequences.

Last week I saw a small child rolling on the floor in Tesco having a massive tantrum, screaming his head off. The mother just standing there ignoring him! I wouldn't have dared behave like that as a child!

I have a child with ASD and when they were young they had awful meltdowns in supermarkets. They could not cope with the stimulus but I could not go shopping without them (days before online shopping).

I got to the stage I stopped caring what judgemental people thought. If my child could not cope it wasn't their fault and I needed to get shopping!

I'm sure you didn't mean your comment in the way I have perceived it, but please think about children who genuinely can't cope.

If I compare it to when I was a child, then being hit, bloody hard, was a consequence for anything resembling bad behaviour, or just being around when your parent was in a bad mood. A lot of children were, quite frankly, terrorised into submission, and society is paying the price for it now with a lot of mental health problems.

Some of these children are now parents and don't know how to be firm without going over board, they were never taught what loving discipline was. They don't want to parent like their parents did so take a to gentle approach. So their children run wild.

@ClaryFairchild

If I compare it to when I was a child, then being hit, bloody hard, was a consequence for anything resembling bad behaviour, or just being around when your parent was in a bad mood. A lot of children were, quite frankly, terrorised into submission, and society is paying the price for it now with a lot of mental health problems.

Some of these children are now parents and don't know how to be firm without going over board, they were never taught what loving discipline was. They don't want to parent like their parents did so take a to gentle approach. So their children run wild.

This is a great post.

Hmm, I don't buy the 'parents are working, no time to parent' argument.

Lots of kids were latchkey kids back in the day, even just the concept of 'parenting' is a relatively new thing. Kids just did as they were told. Parents were even less involved than they are now in some ways.

Another biggie that I've noticed, and MN won't like this: no smacking / caning in schools.

If there's a cane in the corner and that's the punishment kids are more likely to behave. Instead it's less time on the ipad?? Kids don't care.

I know which would make me behave!

Also, nowadays, parents second guess themselves. All the time. Are we doing the right thing for little Ella or whatever. My parents NEVER second guessed themselves. Ever.

I think that makes a difference too

In particular, the children's attention span. They no longer watch TV programmes but clips on youtube/phones.

^

This. A lot of stuff they watch are just clips. Not even a story. Or kids opening gifts running around a massive mansion? I mean, wtf? Makes Grange Hill looks academic

Ha! I'm in my 30s and my primary and secondary school were like zoos. Riddled with behavioural problems and most of us had parents who beat us, neglected us, or both. My behavioural problems in class were partly owing to being hit/neglected at home.

There's a difference between discipline and being a nasty twat, but many parents in this country don't seem to get the difference.

We do gentle parenting. It involves firm boundaries while still acknowledging feelings and allowing children to work through and process them.

For example, 3yo DD didn't want to turn off the TV and come and eat her dinner yesterday. Lots of yelling when told it was dinnertime. My mum would have told me tough, life's not fair, now come and eat until you've cleared your plate - and TV turned off. She was a good mum but wanted to be authoritative, when actually she was being authoritarian. I would have felt resentful and angry but knew I had to do what she said because she was an adult basically.

I told my DD that I understood she wanted to carry on watching, and I love that she loves this show, but it was dinner time now and that means TV goes off. Her dinner - lovely fish and rice that she loves - is waiting next door for her and we'll all be there tucking in when she's ready to join us. And left her face down on the sofa.

She wandered through happy as Larry less than a minute later to join us to eat. No shouting, no tension. She knew the score and knew I meant it. It really works for us and she behaves for preschool and my mum as well. It's about understanding the way a family and a society works as a team and their place in that, rather than 'adults tell and I just do'.

It's not just letting them do what they want and it's not the easy way out. Believe me, shouting and laying down illogical rules would take far less effort and self control.

A couple of days ago after I said “no” to my child and then repeated the no when dc insisted that I say yes, a woman intervened and accused me of ‘treating my dc like shit.’

She used those exact words. I actually replied to her accusation by saying ‘no, I don’t think so.’ She insisted that saying no to my child was treating her like shit.

Not only did this woman undermine my parenting, she modelled bad behaviour by swearing and being a verbally aggressive bully. This affected my daughter. She was scared of this woman.

Some parents, understandably, want to avoid confrontations like this in public and are too afraid to discipline their children when out in public.

Stop undermining parents, teachers and authority figures in front of children. Stop overly criticising parents and set a better example of how a good citizen behaves in public.

Then children will have a better environment to grow up in and their behaviour will reflect that. We need to be a better village.

Be kind to one another. Help out when you can. Be nice. Have self respect, respect for others and respect for your surrounding environment. And remember, you’re not perfect, you will make mistakes. Own it. And remember other people aren’t perfect either.

Gentle parenting. Raising entitled children who think the world revolves around them and become entitled adults.

They are in for a huge surprise when they grow up and go into the real world.

I don't think its a generational thing, I think its a parenting thing.

For example two lots of our neighbours have daughters the same age, have been to the same school/teachers for the last 8 years but are poles apart in attitude and manners.

The worst family are 3 mini me's of their mother. No manners, are rude, lazy, drive like maniacs, aren't above lying or cheating, sulky girls. Their Father is usually hiding outside somewhere and i can't say I blame him either.

The other single parent family (but seem to co parent well) are lovely (naturally have their ups and downs) but all get in and help with chores, pleasant and cheerful (always to others, if not to Mum at times) and always say Hi or wave out. Mum is always pleasant and in clear contrast to the one above.

So my money is on parenting style.

I've been teaching 15 years. Parenting. Just that.

I dunno, the kids around me are pretty delightful. Very caring and concerned for others, it's rather heartening.

The fact that some posters seem to think it is be your child's friend or the other option 'you're child is frightened of you', demonstrates how clueless they are.

But bothe parents working means there is less time for DCs and sitting on a screen easily fills this space. Just how it is today.

I'm guessing you live in a downmarket area OP? The kids where we live are wonderful, from teens downwards.
These sweeping statements are pretty vile, what about saying "why are all old people rude and obnoxious these days?" Unpleasant, see?
I find people treat you as you treat them, largely, so dig deep inside OP.

Gentle parenting is a fantastic method but it requires much more than not telling child off. It involves a secure environment, boundaries, routine, structure, lots of communication and attention and mutual respect and still of course needs consequence. Unfortunately a lot of parents do not have the time or understanding to do this so the method fails.

In my era of growing up (80's) we feared authorities so automatically behaved. Fear isn't good from a psychological perspective but it does make children behave.

Also whilst Sen children accessing ms schools is a fantastic idea in theory and better than being in special schools if not needed. It requires that the ms schools adapt their setting to meet needs and unfortunately the majority of schools do not have the funding, training, education or at times inclination to do this. Instead the cheap easy method is try to make sen children be 'normal' which is damaging for the child and extremely hard for staff and peers.

I think society in general is to blame. I have a DD who is 22 months and really testing the boundaries at the moment, we were out shopping a few days ago and she decided she didn't want to walk on sit in her buggy board (8 month old DS was in the pushchair) we hadn't been out long and she wasn't tired, she said she wanted a carry, I crouched down and told her she couldn't have a carry and needed to be a big girl and either walk or sit on the board, well she threw a fit, screaming and stamping her feet, I took her hand and carried on walking, an elderly woman who'd witnessed the whole thing, came up to me in the middle of the shopping Center and demanded that I pick my DD up as I was being cruel. I explained that she is used to walking reasonably long distances and is just testing her boundaries and if I give in to her now, she'll do it every time. The woman huffed, muttered something about ' young mums today' and walked away.
I love my children but they also have to learn what is acceptable and what's not but unfortunately most parents choose the easy (in the moment) way out.

@ReggaetonLente

We do gentle parenting. It involves firm boundaries while still acknowledging feelings and allowing children to work through and process them.

For example, 3yo DD didn't want to turn off the TV and come and eat her dinner yesterday. Lots of yelling when told it was dinnertime. My mum would have told me tough, life's not fair, now come and eat until you've cleared your plate - and TV turned off. She was a good mum but wanted to be authoritative, when actually she was being authoritarian. I would have felt resentful and angry but knew I had to do what she said because she was an adult basically.

I told my DD that I understood she wanted to carry on watching, and I love that she loves this show, but it was dinner time now and that means TV goes off. Her dinner - lovely fish and rice that she loves - is waiting next door for her and we'll all be there tucking in when she's ready to join us. And left her face down on the sofa.

She wandered through happy as Larry less than a minute later to join us to eat. No shouting, no tension. She knew the score and knew I meant it. It really works for us and she behaves for preschool and my mum as well. It's about understanding the way a family and a society works as a team and their place in that, rather than 'adults tell and I just do'.

It's not just letting them do what they want and it's not the easy way out. Believe me, shouting and laying down illogical rules would take far less effort and self control.

Can I just ask what if she hadn’t turned the tv off and come for her food?

Honestly just curious.