Why is children's behaviour worse these days?

[salviapages]

I recently retrained as a primary teacher, did placements in a few schools then worked as a supply teacher so seen a wide range and I've been shocked at the behaviour. Nothing like how I remember kids in my class at primary being.

Every teacher I've spoken to about this says behaviour has gotten worse over the years and I've seen mumsnetters say the same, including in the current thread about teachers leaving the profession.

So - why is this? Have we changed how we raise children? Have schools changed? Why the rise in bad behaviour?

When I was a teacher a few years ago I found many of the kids were sent to school with no breakfast and for lunch they had crisps and coke. As a result they couldn’t focus, especially in the afternoon after their daily intake of junk food. I did a special lesson with them on proper nutrition and one of them said, “but if this food is bad for us, why do they sell it to us?” Which made me very sad.

Adding to the problem was that many of the kids had zero boundaries in place at home. They were allowed to do or not do whatever they liked without consequences so had no self discipline when it came to school work. I felt they had been badly let down by parents and the wider society.

Should children fear their parents

They should fear the consequences of poor behaviour.

I think there are some popular misconceptions about behaviour management which prevent people from understanding how gentle parenting could work.

The first big one - the idea that all behaviour must be addressed otherwise it will get worse and worse exponentially. Thinking that what you let go at 2 will be twice as hard to deal with at 4, what you ignore at 4 will be twice as hard to deal with at 8 and by 16 you'll have a juvenile delinquent.

This is (in many cases, not all cases) incorrect - a lot of behaviour is developmental and if you do nothing, they will grow out of it anyway. Especially if you build other skills around it. For instance, the idea of making sure that you always punish a tantrum by exclusion or ensuring it doesn't lead to the wanted thing or ignoring, being that if you don't do these things, then the child will still be tantruming at 4/6/8/12. But this isn't the case as most modern parenting methods say don't punish tantrums, they are age appropriate expressions of overwhelming emotion. And yes of course you shouldn't immediately and consistently give a child whatever they want when they have a tantrum to get them to shut up - as that probably will teach them it's an effective method to get what they want - but you don't need to deal with it punitively. If you validate a child's feelings and soothe them and help them calm down, then have a conversation about what they want and decide (independent of the tantrum) whether it's a reasonable thing for them to get or not, they do still grow out of tantrums and stop having them - they don't just exponentially get worse and worse. In addition talking about their feelings allows them to develop the skill to express those feelings in a less explosive way.

The second big misconception is that the only way to enforce a boundary is by using threat of punishment. That is one way to enforce a boundary and it can be an effective one, but it's not the only way.

Baby is waking up so I can't do specific/comparative example - but quickly -

Prevent the action with a physical barrier
Remove child from situation so that they can't do the thing
Remove whatever it is they are trying to do something bad with
Redirect them to an acceptable way to fulfil the urge that they have that isn't destructive
Close supervision and jump in with intervention before something happens (talk to them/steer them away)
Avoid a situation that it happens in
Change the environment so that it's difficult
Make the wanted alternative more appealing/easier

Although some of these might look like a punishment (e.g. take away hard toy that is being thrown) that's fine as the idea is not "never do anything the child doesn't like" but "do what is necessary to keep everyone safe/sane" and the point is you might take away a toy that is being misused temporarily, but you would not take away a toy to punish a child for spitting food, for example.

@Gizacluethen

Children don’t fear their parents these days like they did many years ago.

Good. You shouldn't fear your parents or anybody who is bigger, stronger, more powerful than you. It's indicative of an abusive relationship.

Perhaps children currently feel safer to explore themselves and express their emotion. Rather than, like when we were kids, bottling stuff up, suppressing stuff and living in fear of adults. These children may actually grow up to be decent adults with less mental health issues, less FOG, more able to stand up for themselves, say no to CFs. You can't judge a generation until they're adults.

I do believe that grownups that believe you must "win" with kids to witness and experience what they call bad behaviour more often. First ,it's only natural to get some push back when your position is adversarial/confrontational to begin with and second it's very easy to see any deviation from the(very rigid,prescriptive and subjective)"norm" as naughty/rude/bad behaviour.

My children are far better behaved than me and my siblings were, it’s quite incredible actually the difference. There may be a general trend, and if true, I’d consider it likely to be something to do with the internet, less connection to their peers etc.

@Hospedia

Children with SEN are not to blame for rhe behaviour of children without SEN.

This.

I have a child with SEN. I’m actually shocked and quite offended at all the accusations on this thread that SEN children are making entire classes of kids badly behaved. My child is actually a stickler for rules and benefits from a very strict routine. *

*he also definitely has selective hearing and has his moments like they all do. I’m not some perfect parent.

Regarding the rise in autism - why does no woman question the quality of the male sperm? There is a rise in autism due to the fact MEN are having children later in life. Also, there is most likely to be a diagnosis of autism in single parent families - I'm sure the parent that abandoned must have had something to do with it. It's not always the woman's fault and I wish everyone woman could understand this instead of being smug. If you have perfectly behaved children who respond to "gentle" parenting good for you. Some of us were dealt a harder hand in life.

I think inclusion has a lot to answer for too, there are not any places for children with additional needs in special schools or units which have extra resources and staff to deal with them so there are one or two children in every class that cannot cope with being in the class, and so they misbehave, often in quite extreme ways. My kids have both experienced boxes and chairs being thrown around the classroom and out of windows. They’ve both been removed from classes or gym or outdoors because the child cannot be controlled. The teachers have nothing they can do, the head teachers can’t do anything because there is no where else for the child to go. No one is winning in this situation.

The children learn from a young age that it’s okay to be badly behaved as there are no consequences and they are told to be extra kind to the child without ever having anything explained properly. This leads to confusion and resentment. Also the worst behaved kids are often given certificates at assembly if they manage to behave while the quiet children are mostly overlooked. I can see why this happens but a 5 year can’t
That’s my experience anyway

No they’re just naughty

That's just as lazy as that lazy parenting people love moaning about.

Also frankly I don't want my child to have unquestioning respect for authority and his "elders". I want him to treat people respectfully if they treat him with respect, not a blanket "all teachers, adults and other people in positions of authority must be respected and obeyed regardless of what they're like".

I am very frequently shouty mum in fact and I really hate that about myself as it reminds me of the way I was raise when my mum would just lose the plot. However unlike my mum if I lose the plot I apologise to my son afterwards for doing so because I don't think shouting at him or at anyone is OK. He doesn't get carte blanche to behave however he likes. He gets short shrift from me if he is rude, aggressive or unkind, because that's not how we interact with one another in our family (and if we ever do then we acknowledge and apologise). I don't want him to be scared of me. I want him to respect me as a human being with feelings. The way I do him.

There has been a change in attitude though. Parents favour and protect their own dc now to an unhealthy extent. Years ago my classmates and I would stand up for someone elderly on the bus, to use a random example, having been encouraged strongly to do so by our parents and teachers. And more to the point we wouldn't bother about any discomfort, and it wouldn't occur to us to bother, because our parents didn't draw it to our attention, so it was just a normal.and accepted thing to do and we were fine with it.

But if this subject is raised on Mumsnet, you will see parents arguing until the cows come home that their dc have as much right to a seat as anyone else. (I am obviously talking about able-bodied dc from about 8-18 in this instance without any SEN or disabilities) and that they shouldn't give up their seats for someone with say obviously poor balance and a stick, because their needs comes first. And that, imho, leads to dc and then adults, who only think.about their own comfort. Its a bit "I'm alright Jack". And it deprives dc of the good feeling they get from doing something good for someone else.

I accept this isn't a popular opinion.

And what children get away with now. When I was little, if we were given medicine you took it with no argument and no messing about. Now kids are pussyfooted around

I don't know how old you are, but kids definitely fought against medicine in the 80s and 90s as well.

There isn't a time when people haven't complained that young people are worse behaving than they used to be, all the way back to Greeks and Romans. Most kids are alright, although the 2 years of disruption from Covid has shaken up socialisation a lot.

@horseymum

Parents don't say no and mean it.

A lot of children are never pulled up about their behaviour at home and schools are not allowed to, otherwise the parents who have already failed their child will be at the Head's door to 'sort that teacher out'.

@dollymuchymuchness

Parents always seem far too busy to have time for their children. They let them get away with stuff, just for a quiet life. There are no repercussions for bad behaviour.

^ This It’s hard working full time and having time for 2/3 children of different ages. Parents popping children into breakfast club, then school, then after school club. Where does the time come from.

In case it has not been quoted already:
“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”
Socrates (469–399 B.C.)

Those are all lovely strategies if you are parent with 1 toddler @BertieBotts but less useful in a classroom with 30 15 year olds. There comes a point, and ideally it comes fairly early on, that sometimes you just have to pipe down and follow the rules so that everyone can get on.

Grhhh I have a lovely 19 year old who went to full time nursery and wrap around care and holiday care - she’s respectful never ever been in trouble when she was at school. & my 12 year old seems to be going down a similar path - another respectful young person.
So please can we quit blaming the awful working mothers……funnily enough we never blame the working fathers

What I will say is there was drugs and bad behaviour when I was at school and the biggest difference to now is they don’t exclude those kids anymore - which isn’t a bad thing because we realise there may be a bigger picture and something else going on! For example my friend excluded from school for drugs - was being abused by her father maybe if someone took the time to ask rather than immediately exclude her life may have taken a different direction.

Covid has been a impact - a friend who teaches y8 has said it’s like teaching a y6 class at times the emotional bumps and lack of focus is difficult for the majority of the y8 children. And funding for schools support for all children needs to be addressed.

Imo it’s likely a combination of things.
A lack of family structure, no male role model in many families nowadays.
Soft parenting, this also accounts for children commonly now being left in nappies until age 4+
Parents believing children will do things in their own time rather than actually realising they should be guiding them through challenges like toilet training, tying shoe laces, eating at the table and using cutlery, losing at games etc.

All of these things are being taught less and less.
Children being given too much screen time and fast food whilst also not being allowed out to play. Children are not developing the same social skills that people of my generation learned.

Lastly, we’re now living in a society who increasingly believe they hold first place in importance and entitlement over and above morality or doing the right thing by others.

@Dogknowsbest

Regarding the rise in autism - why does no woman question the quality of the male sperm? There is a rise in autism due to the fact MEN are having children later in life. Also, there is most likely to be a diagnosis of autism in single parent families - I'm sure the parent that abandoned must have had something to do with it. It's not always the woman's fault and I wish everyone woman could understand this instead of being smug. If you have perfectly behaved children who respond to "gentle" parenting good for you. Some of us were dealt a harder hand in life.

Well how does one question sperm?

I don’t think blame-seeking does any good, if I said the same about older mums’ eggs and Down Syndrome I would be given a short shrift on here and rightly so.

I do agree however that there are some very smug posts on here from people whose children and probably just constitutionally compliant or meek.

Screens. Kids have no attention span and don't want to work for anything / don't know how to work for things.

I do think it is better for children to have one parent at home (doesn't have to be the mother). But with the massive caveat that:

a) many families can't afford to rely on one wage
b) many women find their mental health very adversely affected by being a SAHP and then often find themselves financially fucked in the event of a split too.

@MajorCarolDanvers

2 years of global pandemic, 3 lockdowns , 2 years of restrictions on normal life, face masks, vaccinations missed schooling, missed childhood experiences, ill health- mental and physical

As a teacher do you really not know?

Covid provides a convenient scapegoat, children have been adversely affected but the problems under discussion go back further thatn 2 years. When 'inclusion' became the way things were going I don't know of any teachers thought it a good idea.

We don’t Twat our kids into submission anymore therefore they don’t fear physical violence should an adult raise their voice.

It’s a new age of parenting where we would rather discuss behaviour and treat them as autonomous individuals rather than expect blind obedience.

Im watching a dog training guy on YouTube and honest to goodness a lot of parents could learn a lot from that, literally by installing some trust in your relationship and assumption that the dog will to the right thing and rewarding good behaviour and ignoring bad appears to be the key to great dog ownership.
No punishments, no threats, monitoring the dogs mental health so that you are in tune with the warning signs that the behaviour might become poor and using distraction techniques before it becomes a problem.
I actually recognise a lot of what I’ve done with my kids in his program and so far so good.