Why is children's behaviour worse these days?

[salviapages]

I recently retrained as a primary teacher, did placements in a few schools then worked as a supply teacher so seen a wide range and I've been shocked at the behaviour. Nothing like how I remember kids in my class at primary being.

Every teacher I've spoken to about this says behaviour has gotten worse over the years and I've seen mumsnetters say the same, including in the current thread about teachers leaving the profession.

So - why is this? Have we changed how we raise children? Have schools changed? Why the rise in bad behaviour?

@Arianya

Personally I think it’s this whole “be kind” thing. Society used to have zero tolerance of bad behaviour regardless of the reason. Now we constantly make excuses for people’s bad behaviour and let them off with it if there’s a reason (which means they keep doing it). There has long been criticism that society is too soft nowadays. Stronger punishments and deterrents would work wonders imo.

Society also deemed some people simply existing a "bad" behaviour. The same for completely normal behaviours which were in fact pathologised and people (especially women) institutionalised or sent away somewhere away from the sensitive eyes of the "civilised" society.

@Organictangerine any specific examples or even better statistics/sources for that.

I did teacher training way back in the 1980s. Some of the kids were lovely, some were little sods. Same as when my DD went through school in the 90s and my DS who's still in primary. Class sizes are bigger. Expectations on teachers is greater. Paperwork is off the scale. But the kids are still just kids, some good, some bad and most in between.

I think that modern parenting is partly to blame. I absolutely do not equate good old-fashioned parenting with 'walloping' children but I do associate it with interested, invested parents who took responsibility for their children's behaviour, encouraged good manners, were not afraid to set boundaries and carry out sanctions, talked to their children, gave them roots and values and showed them they loved them.
I also think lifestyles have changed so the idea of extended families and communities being part of raising children has changed. Many children have, as another poster has said, really chaotic lives. They generally thrive on consistency, boundaries and being able to trust that adults will behave predictably and positively. That's sadly in short supply for many children.
And on the subject of working parents, I am nearly 60 and all the women in my family worked when we were children. They never used that as an excuse not to parent their children themselves.

@Organictangerine - presumably only quite wealthy people are getting professional help for minor things. If you need CAMHs the thresholds are really high and the wait lists are really long.

[quote ldontWanna]@Organictangerine any specific examples or even better statistics/sources for that.[/quote]
Are there sources for every opinion on this thread? Or do you only ask if you don’t like the opinion? The demand for ‘studies’ during abstract conversations is something I’ve only ever come across here…

@Itshothothot

Gentle parenting has a lot to answer for.

Children don’t fear their parents these days like they did many years ago.

Many parents give in to their children for an easy life

This.

I ditched a long term friend who practised gentle parenting, her DD was the nastiest little bully to my kids and fuck all got done when she was horrible to them. She was NEVER told off - bad behaviour resulted in ‘a chat’. Friend couldn’t understand why her DD had no mates at school and allowed the girl to believe that her feelings mattered above anyone elses. Everyone in her class was a bully too, seemingly because they wouldn’t just let this girl dictate everyone else’s play, and my friend and her DH were constantly complaining to the school about various children who did absolutely nothing wrong other than not letting this brat push them around. My friend actually became quite insufferable and I phased her out.

I completely agree Porcelain in a situation where risk is involved but that is not usually the case in a classroom, is it?

@Organictangerine well when you make a generalised statement such as "kids get therapy when they need a firm steer" And deny medical need , I would expect that opinion to be based at least on some specific examples/anecdata if not research.
That's what happens when you present opinions as facts.

Just like I would ask from someone saying kids don't need vaccines, just so and so supplement.

[quote ldontWanna]@Organictangerine well when you make a generalised statement such as "kids get therapy when they need a firm steer" And deny medical need , I would expect that opinion to be based at least on some specific examples/anecdata if not research.
That's what happens when you present opinions as facts.

Just like I would ask from someone saying kids don't need vaccines, just so and so supplement. [/quote]
It’s based on my own personal experiences. Like every other opinion on here. If you expect scientific data to back every opinion everyone has you’ll be in for a long wait.

Plus I doubt they would conduct an experiment denying children psychological care to ‘see how they get on without it’ as it would be deemed unethical

@Organictangerine i also asked for examples.

So do you have one of a child whose parents asked for psychiatric/psychological help and they received it when it wasn't necessary at all and all they needed was a firm steer?

Yes. Me.

I think some kids have always toed the lines, others been little so and so's and everyone else inbetween.

There probably is more of a move towards parents being friends with their kids - and I also think the whole concept of "parenting" as a thing you do, rather than a parent being a thing you are, contribute towards this - people think they follow "parenting strategies" (spoiler if your child is 3 - there is no such thing - you just get your kids to adulthood as best you can). But ultimately people are people and back in Roman time people went on about how awful the younger generation were.

It is the constant child centric rhetoric. Some children are not being raised as adults and duly expect the world to bend to their will. Some parents refuse to accept that their child is in the wrong

I've seen parents defend the indefentable. Always blaming others. And then wonder why the now adult child cannot keep a job.

I'm a middle school teacher of 25 years. Every year I think I won't be shocked by behaviour and I am.

So many parents treat their children, from babyhood, like Gods. They don't say no, at all. I actually had a parent tell me that they didn't believe in the word 'No' and I wasn't to use it in front of her child. The same child who was permanently excluded (eventually), for so many serious events that the police were involved. There are SO many reasons, none of them the child's fault.

@fedupwithitnow

I do think children have become very self centred, they had to fit in more before.

It's not always about them and sometimes they do need to learn this. Perhaps this teaches more resilience

I take your point about mental health and how it used to manifest itself in other things

I agree. Tbh, and I know this is controversial, but I don't personally agree with the notion that children should come first i.e. above the parents' relationship with each other. When kids are given the message that everything revolves around them, they can't really be blamed for acting like it does, and acting out when boundaries are imposed.

Most of the parents I’ve come across with kids who are not the best behaved are always the one who make excuses. They recorded their kids swearing or running riot and posted on social media for likes. What is seemingly ‘cute’ at 3 isn’t when they are older. I have spent time with parents who have said nothing as their children have done as they pleased. When it goes wrong there’s a reason why. I recall a mum asking me how I got my DC to stand in a queue and I said I had told them they would go home if they messes around. She was shocked and told me her DC would never do what she asked. Not once did she try. One of the kids in DC class assaulted my DC on 8 separate occasions and was sexually explicit. The school told me he was a child with SEN so there was a limited amount they could do. I spoke with the parent and was told that my DC should maybe grow up a bit and fight the battle and stop telling tales because her DC couldn’t help their behaviour.

Too many parents are ineffectual. They are far too quick to give in to their child because it makes their life easier for the next 15 minutes. They ignore the fact their lax parenting is just kicking the can down the road, postponing the problem, and therefore actually making their lives harder in the long run.

It’s become normal for some parents to allow what would previously have been bad behaviour. It feels like centuries ago now when I was a kid but I would never ever have dared to do half the stuff I see kids belong allowed to do now. I also notice there’s been much more of a shift to parents re arranging their life around their children whereas before this wasn’t quite so evident. Not clear if this is in any way related.

Running in restaurants, screeching and screaming and in public, lying on the floor in shops, interrupting, stampeding around jn hotels.

In fairness many of the adults I’ve come across are no better. Particularly in hotels.

I was eating dinner somewhere when a toddler was allowed to crawl over to our table and when he didn’t revive any parenting from us he went over to a potted plant and started emptying dirt onto the floor. No one as much as told him to stop.

Wow, wish I hadn’t read this thread. As a woman in a professional role I’m quite often sweepingly blamed for the downfall of my profession because of the necessity for women to take a bit of time off after they have a baby. Good to know that going back to work means my kids will be little shits. Seems I’ve managed to screw everyone over with my insistence on pursuing a career. Glad I worked hard and got all those qualifications!

Just out of interest are men to blame for anything or is it all down to working mothers?

Actually I’d like to expand on my comment - I think adult behaviour is worse and this is having a direct result on children.

You see a lot of adults absolutely incapable of taking any form of responsibility for their own actions quite often and it’s nothing like how I was brought up.

@taybert

Wow, wish I hadn’t read this thread. As a woman in a professional role I’m quite often sweepingly blamed for the downfall of my profession because of the necessity for women to take a bit of time off after they have a baby. Good to know that going back to work means my kids will be little shits. Seems I’ve managed to screw everyone over with my insistence on pursuing a career. Glad I worked hard and got all those qualifications!

Just out of interest are men to blame for anything or is it all down to working mothers?

I don't think that's the case at all. Everyone has opinions but I think showing your child the value of hard work (especially as a woman) is commendable and I say this as a part timer.

A bit old but this study shows that parents spend more time with their children now than 50 years ago news.uci.edu/2016/09/28/todays-parents-spend-more-time-with-their-kids-than-moms-and-dads-did-50-years-ago/

Honestly, there are some SAHM's at my DS's school that pay their kids next to no attention (at least at pick up and at the nearby park), a good parent is a good parent whether they work or not.

@taybert

Wow, wish I hadn’t read this thread. As a woman in a professional role I’m quite often sweepingly blamed for the downfall of my profession because of the necessity for women to take a bit of time off after they have a baby. Good to know that going back to work means my kids will be little shits. Seems I’ve managed to screw everyone over with my insistence on pursuing a career. Glad I worked hard and got all those qualifications!

Just out of interest are men to blame for anything or is it all down to working mothers?

Peak Mn. Extrapolation at its finest!

Maybe it’s because my mum was a single mum and had no choice but to work in the 80’s, but why do people think working mother’s is a new phenomenon?? My granny also worked when her kids were little!