Why is children's behaviour worse these days?

[salviapages]

I recently retrained as a primary teacher, did placements in a few schools then worked as a supply teacher so seen a wide range and I've been shocked at the behaviour. Nothing like how I remember kids in my class at primary being.

Every teacher I've spoken to about this says behaviour has gotten worse over the years and I've seen mumsnetters say the same, including in the current thread about teachers leaving the profession.

So - why is this? Have we changed how we raise children? Have schools changed? Why the rise in bad behaviour?

@TortugaRumCakeQueen

It's definitely down to poor parenting. My niece has awful tantrums, which her parents pander to. They run around pleading with her, and give in to ridiculous demands - like allowing chocolate before dinner. Does she do it when being cared for by her Nan? Absolutely not, because Nanna won't have a bar of it.

I see so many badly behaved kids in supermarkets. The general parental comment is "Please don't do that Toby. Please don't kick Mummy" - or whatever - in my day we would have been walloped over the head and taken home.

Yes, children should be scared of the repercussions if they misbehave. Otherwise the lunatics are running the asylum.

If a 4 year old kicked me, they would never ever dare to again, I can tell you that much. And I certainly would be asking them to please not kick me again. I mean, come on!!

That might get your child to obey, through fear, in the short term, but you’re teaching them that violence gets results and the person who gets to make decisions is the one who is biggest, scariest and most violent. You’re also potentially setting yourself up for a dysfunctional relationship when they’re teenagers, and you can no longer control them through threats, but they don’t trust you.

You might think the stuff you’re saying is just common sense but not everyone’s parenting goals are limited to immediate consequences. In some ways that’s the easier bit.

There are a worrying number of people on here who seem to equate effective parenting with walloping your kids.

Fear and violence are easy ways to make your children biddable and obedient. Unfortunately, they work less well to instill the other qualities children need for a successful and happy life - confidence, self-worth, a sense of trust in the adults around them, good personal boundaries, knowledge of what healthy relationships look like, curiosity and critical thinking, not being afraid to take risks.

I think it starts very early with a lot of children, I’m talking from one years old. I went to a toddler group when they reopened last summer with my DC and I couldn’t believe how poorly behaved one of the toddler’s there was. He pounced on my then ten month old baby three times, pulled his hair viciously and clawed at his face. If my DC did this to another child I would be completely mortified but the Mum didn’t even say sorry or rush over to stop him. She tried to blame covid actually saying he’d picked up on the behaviour of his older siblings during lockdown! I have older DC too who would never act this way. The fact she wasn’t apologetic spoke volumes.

Anyway I didn’t go back to that group but went to another and she was there again, this was around 6 months later so her toddler obviously then also half a year older and even worse somehow. Bullying other children by snatching toys from them constantly or pushing them, I tried to keep my DC well away from him. Again, she never said sorry to anyone and didn’t rush over to stop him hurting others. She was much more interested in chatting to her friend so wasn’t even watching him half of the time. I stopped going to that group after he snatched a toy from another child and the toy whacked my DS in the head.

She wasn’t how you’d picture a stereotypical crap Mum, like Vicky Pollard or whatever. She wore him in a backpack carrier and they both wore expensive Scandi clothes or Frugi. I’ve witnessed lots of shite parenting over the years and it isn’t always the sort of parents people would imagine, sometimes middle class parents who seem to want to be their child’s best friend. There’s a Mum like this at my DC’s primary school. Seems like a nice, gentle woman but her children run rings around her. She just has no control over them because she talks to them like they’re her friends, always way too soft and gentle when they’re clearly misbehaving.

@Goldbar

There are a worrying number of people on here who seem to equate effective parenting with walloping your kids.

Fear and violence are easy ways to make your children biddable and obedient. Unfortunately, they work less well to instill the other qualities children need for a successful and happy life - confidence, self-worth, a sense of trust in the adults around them, good personal boundaries, knowledge of what healthy relationships look like, curiosity and critical thinking, not being afraid to take risks.

Especially since statistics show us that society wasn't exactly the paradigm of adjusted and functioning adults as they'd want us to believe.

Alcoholism,drug addiction and other addictions, violence and DV, homelessness, crime, risky ,reckless and dangerous behaviours were all either backlash or coping mechanisms for that style of parenting.

The pure disbelief when a child that you've beaten his whole life raised their hand up against you once they became bigger and stronger. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

Parents are often so busy trying to be their child's friend that they forget to be their parent

@Organictangerine

I don’t think gentle parenting is working. It just seems to encourage every child to over analyse their feelings and be too introspective, resulting in (I believe) pathologising perfectly normal emotions and behaviours. I believe this is what has caused the boom in ‘gender identity’ problems.

Interesting point

@Assssssssssss

I find it quite a sweeping statement. Most parents are good people and we are really all trying.

I was about to say something similar . You cannot generalise about children and parents like that . If you see so much disruption in classrooms, look to management - I'll bet they don't back their staff with effective discipline procedures. Parents are great readers of books about raising children. One such couple came to me on parents' night. That raised eyebrows because they had never come before. They had come to ask how I managed to get him to do as I said and how he had worked and got a very good report. It turned out that he had been allowed to make his own choices since he was 4. He had taken the idea and run with it.He chose when he behaved, when he had meals, when he got washed, whether he attended the dentist or not. And so on. I could not believe my ears . They thought they were encouraging maturity. Children would interpret this handling as not caring about them. Be careful what theories you choose to believe in

I'm guessing you live in a downmarket area OP? The kids where we live are wonderful, from teens downwards.

^

😂😂😂😂

@Tillerman - Did you not say anything? An school aged child knocked my toddler absolutely flying in the playground and the mother had her back to me chattering away, I absolutely let rip on him for not apologising, I can’t imagine nothing in incident like hair pulling go without demanding an apology from the mother if not the child.

they work less well to instill the other qualities children need for a successful and happy life - confidence, self-worth, a sense of trust in the adults around them, good personal boundaries

Then why is there a mental health crisis among young people who are least likely to have been smacked than any other generation?

@Organictangerine

they work less well to instill the other qualities children need for a successful and happy life - confidence, self-worth, a sense of trust in the adults around them, good personal boundaries

Then why is there a mental health crisis among young people who are least likely to have been smacked than any other generation?

Social media, impossible standards, global news to terrify them, porn, Much less free time to just be kids...

I honestly think parenting has gotten better in general, it's just kids now have more to contend with.

Then why is there a mental health crisis among young people who are least likely to have been smacked than any other generation?

I suspect in large part because mental health is recognised and prioritised to a much greater degree nowadays. Young people are taught that their mental health is important, that they don't have to suffer in silence and that they should seek help if they are having problems.

The other part of it is that life is simply more stressful nowadays for children for a whole host of reasons.

I honestly think parenting has gotten better in general, it's just kids now have more to contend with.

Yes, parents have really had to up their game. Smacking and authoritarian behaviour just doesn't cut it anymore.

@Organictangerine

they work less well to instill the other qualities children need for a successful and happy life - confidence, self-worth, a sense of trust in the adults around them, good personal boundaries

Then why is there a mental health crisis among young people who are least likely to have been smacked than any other generation?

Because they're not dead,in prison,homeless, drop outs, ran away with the first man/woman that could take them out of there , pregnant and/or married at 16, sent off in the military,institutionalised,marginalised,ridiculed,isolated,forgotten about.

Then why is there a mental health crisis among young people who are least likely to have been smacked than any other generation?

Metal health difficulties are more recognised now and parents are more likely to seek support for their child/teen whereas in my childhood/teen years (80s to late 90s) the prevalent attitude was that "teens are mopey... stop going in about it... no one wants to hear about it..." etc. They then channeled those mental and emotional difficulties into harmful behaviours like drinking, self harm, taking unnecessary risks with safety/health, shoplifting, sleeping around, bunking off school, etc. Just because something wasn't acknowledged or understood doesn't mean it didn't exist.

I dont think you can link smacking going out of fashion with the mental health issues in school now as there are so many variables. How do you know its not the children arent self medicating with tabacco and alcohol as much as they did when i was young so it shows up more.

@EllisActon @WhereHasSpringSprungTo

The softy softy parenting approach.
Sometimes a child needs to be told. ' no that's naughty' that's no acceptable.
Or whatever.

Not oh sweetie please don't do that that.

I also totally agree!

The days when children were afraid of the consequences of bad behaviour at school have long gone. When I was at school the deterrent was simply the threat of the slipper, I never got it because I made bloody sure I behaved myself! Now children can (and do) treat teachers with utter contempt.

I do think children have become very self centred, they had to fit in more before.

It's not always about them and sometimes they do need to learn this. Perhaps this teaches more resilience

I take your point about mental health and how it used to manifest itself in other things

@Hospedia

Then why is there a mental health crisis among young people who are least likely to have been smacked than any other generation?

Metal health difficulties are more recognised now and parents are more likely to seek support for their child/teen whereas in my childhood/teen years (80s to late 90s) the prevalent attitude was that "teens are mopey... stop going in about it... no one wants to hear about it..." etc. They then channeled those mental and emotional difficulties into harmful behaviours like drinking, self harm, taking unnecessary risks with safety/health, shoplifting, sleeping around, bunking off school, etc. Just because something wasn't acknowledged or understood doesn't mean it didn't exist.

This. I was a self harmer in my teens (for many many reasons) . Dad let mum deal with it, he didn't push because he believed i have a better relationship with her,talk to her more etc. Mum told me I'm stupid and weak and to get over it . She either ignored it or I got in trouble/shouted at for it. Shut up shut up shut up. Keep up the appearances. No one must know. Think of the neighbours. What will people think.So i just learned to hide it better, or found other (unhealthy)coping mechanisms.

It worked though, often people told me I'm the happiest girl they know. I had already tried to kill myself twice, I was just really crap at it . I still have scars. I still get the urge sometimes when things are really bad, so much so that my wrists physically hurt/itch screaming for release.

Officially though? No diagnosis,no issues, no mental health problems. In fact... the happiest girl they knew.

@Hospedia

Then why is there a mental health crisis among young people who are least likely to have been smacked than any other generation?

Metal health difficulties are more recognised now and parents are more likely to seek support for their child/teen whereas in my childhood/teen years (80s to late 90s) the prevalent attitude was that "teens are mopey... stop going in about it... no one wants to hear about it..." etc. They then channeled those mental and emotional difficulties into harmful behaviours like drinking, self harm, taking unnecessary risks with safety/health, shoplifting, sleeping around, bunking off school, etc. Just because something wasn't acknowledged or understood doesn't mean it didn't exist.

But people are seeking professional psychiatric help for things that just need a firm steer. I honestly believe kids and teens feed off their parents moods, if the parent is hysterical and worried every time the kid has a problem, then the kids will be too. Rushing them off for counselling will confirm in their head that something is seriously wrong that is too big for them to get through independently. Obviously not saying all cases are like that, but I think a lot of them are.

Personally I think it’s this whole “be kind” thing. Society used to have zero tolerance of bad behaviour regardless of the reason. Now we constantly make excuses for people’s bad behaviour and let them off with it if there’s a reason (which means they keep doing it). There has long been criticism that society is too soft nowadays. Stronger punishments and deterrents would work wonders imo.

@Organictangerine and do you feel qualified to differentiate or should we perhaps leave that to the professionals to decide because the bottom line is I am not a mental health professional but I am a mother so I am going to go running golf professional guidance just on the off chance that it is actually quite serious. A bit like we do when they fall over and you hear a crunch, not quite sure if its a broken bone, fracture or a sprain but let’s let the experts make that decision not us.

[quote Nothappyatwork]@Organictangerine and do you feel qualified to differentiate or should we perhaps leave that to the professionals to decide because the bottom line is I am not a mental health professional but I am a mother so I am going to go running golf professional guidance just on the off chance that it is actually quite serious. A bit like we do when they fall over and you hear a crunch, not quite sure if its a broken bone, fracture or a sprain but let’s let the experts make that decision not us.[/quote]
You don’t need to be a professional to weigh in with your two cents worth on a discussion forum. That’s what they’re for, discussing

Bit like in About a Boy when the mum spends so much time ruminating over the kid’s ‘happiness’ that she makes him quite miserable