Why is children's behaviour worse these days?

[salviapages]

I recently retrained as a primary teacher, did placements in a few schools then worked as a supply teacher so seen a wide range and I've been shocked at the behaviour. Nothing like how I remember kids in my class at primary being.

Every teacher I've spoken to about this says behaviour has gotten worse over the years and I've seen mumsnetters say the same, including in the current thread about teachers leaving the profession.

So - why is this? Have we changed how we raise children? Have schools changed? Why the rise in bad behaviour?

@nopenotplaying

I'm surprised by how many people on here say they have an autistic/sn child. It seems all bad behaviour is labelled now.

My child has autism/ dyspraxia/ dyslexia. His behaviour in school is excellent because he wants to conform and likes the predictability and structure of rules. I sought diagnosis because his reaction to sensory input was not age appropriate and there were many markers consistent with autism about the things he finds easy/ difficult. Diagnosis or not, he is autistic, but recognising that makes life better for us both because it helps us understand him and tweak life to be more managable, and makes him a happier child who understands why he finds life harder than his peers rather than floundering, failing and feeling like a terrible person. Looking at his family there are a lot of high-functioning autistic men who never had a diagnosis. We're just better at recognising it now than when they were growing up in the 70s & 50s. The world has become less autism-friendly; it's noisier, busier, more demanding, more choices, where they coped under the radar, it's harder for children in a more intense world, and now we recognise their difficulties and identify the nature of it.

I'm glad DS is not classed as lazy and rulered on the hand for having poor handwriting. No amount of rulers or lines will cure dyslexia and dyspraxia.

I know many children with SNs and they usually behave well and have very switched-on parents because they recognise their children's needs and do what they can to support their children. Where children with SNs don't meet normal behaviour standards, it's usually from overwhelm, not malicious intent.

Getting a diagnosis takes years and multiple professionals being satisfied that these are long-standing issues meeting clearly defined criteria. When you do have a diagnosis, there is no cure, limited support. It's not a route that parents go down out of laziness.

It's the parents who take no responsibility for their children's behaviour and will not accept any feedback or support that cause more issues that you have to watch out for.

The “bad” behaviour, the extreme stuff, is no worse then it has ever been. There have always been “naughty” kids and overall, I think current teens are far better behaved then us in the 90s.
However in the context of schools, the worst behaved would most like be sent to an alternative provision/excluded/sen school etc whereas now they are in mainstream so it’s more visible to a regular class teacher.
But I think what most teachers are complaining about when they mention behaviour getting worse is what is known as low level disruption. There is a culture now where students to not respect teachers, they answer back, they talk over, and there is a huge sense of entitlement and just a massive lack of consideration of other people. This is probably caused by a lack of punishment and gentle parenting where parents are encourage to make their child, their child’s feelings, the centre of everything. They aren’t taught to be compassionate and considerate to other people enough. When you tell students off because they are disrupting the lesson and preventing the rest of the class from learning, they just don’t care because their feelings matter most.

It’s a bloody hard balance to want your kid to be comfortable in themselves, confident and assertive, and to teach them that their voice and opinion matters whilst also wanting them to be kind, considerate and caring to other.

Financial crisis after financial crisis!
No time to spend with kids as both parents working til 7pm.
Stressed out, over-worked parents.
Separates families with kids being shipped around the country.
Grandparents miles away/no extended family nearby.
iPads doing all the parenting.
Tik tok.
8 year olds having iPhones.
Covid.
Class sizes too big, teachers too stressed.
Teachers leaving the industry/going on sick leave and classes being left with supply teachers for weeks on end.

@LadyMacduff

I'm not sure.

I think there was worse behaviour at the school I attended than the one I work at.

I think that one reason is that it used to be a lot easier to bunk off. Electronic registers and secure school sites mean that a lot more students end up in lessons they hate that 20 years ago they probably would have skived, and behave poorly. I knew a few people who would leave the house in the morning then let themselves back in once their parents had gone to school. Their parents weren't informed that they weren't there so they just got away with it.

I agree with this. I went to a good school in a nice area in the 90s, and by GCSEs a few people in my form were rarely seen because they always "wagged off". A few years later when the sites were made secure, regular electronic registers, and schools working to strict targets on attendance and 5 A*-C grade GCSEs and these personality types were kept in the classroom and often being made to work to the C-D borderline.

Over time, working your way up through employment with a low education base has also become much harder.

I don’t think parental guilt at working long hours is always to blame, the worst behaved children I know all have a SAHP, they are never told no on principle, and they never have to do anything they don’t want to. In some cases the parent wants to be the child’s best friend but that translates to allowing said child to beat the shit out of them, etc. Would we let our best friend hit us?!

I feel very strongly about mental health having a huge history of issues, but I think it’s thrown around too easily as a reason to never upset our kids. That’s not the same thing. Boundaries, and being encouraged to do things that challenge us, and learning that it’s ok not to be 100% happy all the time, are far far more important for mental health and resilience.

Boundaries (which can be enforced kindly, discussed etc if that’s what works for the family) make children feel safe even if they rail against them - pushing them is normal eg as toddlers. I don’t think permissive parenting and a complete lack of boundaries builds secure foundations for a child.

Over time, working your way up through employment with a low education base has also become much harder.

That’s an interesting point, I know the thread is mostly about younger children but I do think it’s a big issue. It’s becoming much harder to get a little Saturday job or even volunteering now under age 18, because of stricter rules. Around here at least everywhere seems to no longer take 16 year olds. Even paper rounds are like gold dust so it’s hard for younger teens to start getting out there and earning their own money, experiencing the real world etc.

I don’t think gentle parenting is working. It just seems to encourage every child to over analyse their feelings and be too introspective, resulting in (I believe) pathologising perfectly normal emotions and behaviours. I believe this is what has caused the boom in ‘gender identity’ problems.

I feel very strongly about mental health having a huge history of issues, but I think it’s thrown around too easily as a reason to never upset our kids.

Yes! On here, so many posts about the most minor of incidences with the parent obsessing over whether it’s ‘traumatised’ their child. Resilience is a gift and so, so important.

I don't really see this where we live (mixed, but mostly affluent urban area). I very rarely come across any serious bad behaviour when out with my DC, and other parents are quick to intervene to stop any misbehaviour by their DC.

I can well believe that teachers have a harder job nowadays in getting young children to sit still and listen, but that must be partly due to the nature of the beasts. Most young children are naturally full of energy and movement and bursting with enthusiasm to share their lives with the people they love (and most primary school children love their teachers). In the past, I imagine the threat of physical punishment, being dragged out of the class or being shouted at was sufficient to get many children to sit still in silence, but that is not how teachers operate nowadays. Instead, they praise and encourage good behaviour and work with children who are having difficulties to make positive changes. Naturally, in the short term at least, this isn't going to be as immediately effective as hitting a child or scaring them into silence.

But it seems to work as teens today are (at least according to the statistics) better behaved and more compassionate and socially aware than teens in the past and much less likely to engage in risky behaviour. Most of the individual teens I come across are delightful, even if they are still prone to rowdy behaviour in large groups.

I agree screentime and lack of exercise are bigger issues nowadays though.

I do think there's a lack of routine and boundaries . Humans thrive on routine and structure - just look how much we all struggled over the last two years when things were different and normal routines went out the window . Parents are reluctant to set boundaries and routines thinking this will cause cortisol overload and lead to mental health problems when it's much more likely the opposite is the case . Things like good sleep hygiene are often replaced by co sleeping and lack of bedtime routines . Sleep has a huge impact on mood and behaviour.
I also think controversially some of the increase in bad behaviour is due to the breakdown of the nuclear family.

@LethargeMarg

I do think there's a lack of routine and boundaries . Humans thrive on routine and structure - just look how much we all struggled over the last two years when things were different and normal routines went out the window . Parents are reluctant to set boundaries and routines thinking this will cause cortisol overload and lead to mental health problems when it's much more likely the opposite is the case . Things like good sleep hygiene are often replaced by co sleeping and lack of bedtime routines . Sleep has a huge impact on mood and behaviour. I also think controversially some of the increase in bad behaviour is due to the breakdown of the nuclear family.

Idea lack of sleep training and co-sleeping causes mental illness seems improbable when it’s the biological default for humans and all similar animals. (Which isn’t to say that doing something different does cause mental illness)

@Organictangerine

I don’t think gentle parenting is working. It just seems to encourage every child to over analyse their feelings and be too introspective, resulting in (I believe) pathologising perfectly normal emotions and behaviours. I believe this is what has caused the boom in ‘gender identity’ problems.

I agree, you see it all the time, including on this forum, when people say 'he needs therapy asap', when actually the best therapy is good , solid, predictable parenting with clear routines, boundaries and emotional warmth. There are always exceptions to that, particularly with extreme trauma histories or complicated grief but generally speaking children need good parenting.

@HardbackWriter

I have been teaching a long time and have never taught a child who has been parented in this way so I am intrigued how it transfers to school if you don’t go down the O’Neill route.

The way @ReggaetonLente describes? You think you've never taught a child who was allowed to choose whether or not to eat a meal when they were 3? I'm pretty certain you have, and what that suggests is that it doesn't make a visible difference.

Although it is bigger than allowing a child to eat or not eat a meal, isn’t it? Everything is a choice which is hard when an institution is catering for the many. Actually I’m pretty certain I haven’t taught children who have been parented in this way - I don’t think they’d choose our school as it wouldn’t align with their ethos. I’m more intrigued than critical, @HardbackWriter

My take on behaviour remains that increased use of technology has changed attention spans and that affects behaviour more than anything. Everything has to be quick and visually stimulating. Many children can no longer concentrate even when they really try.

This week I raised my voice at my 3yo in stress. She told me to take a deep breath and calm down and that me shouting scared her, I told her I was sorry, that I am working at learning how to control my emotions better

Unbelievable. Good luck to her when she tries that on with her teachers.

Forgive me if I sound thick here , but screentime especially on certain games such as Roblox adopt me , requires a lot of concentration, to play the game , to participate in trades , building there houses etc , so why are people thinking or seeing that children cannot concentrate anymore ? Is it because real life is boring in class in comparison then and to wit mind switches off ?
My girl is 10 she loves her screentime but I haven't seen that she cannot concentrate in the real world so far
Genuinely wondering this ?

@Flutterby106

This week I raised my voice at my 3yo in stress. She told me to take a deep breath and calm down and that me shouting scared her, I told her I was sorry, that I am working at learning how to control my emotions better

Unbelievable. Good luck to her when she tries that on with her teachers.

Farking hell 🤣🤣

@itsgettingweird

IME it's the closure of special schools and the misunderstood and poorly executed idea of inclusion.

You have pupils who are in MS school who cannot for their own reasons cope. Many don't even have the support they need to at least attempt to manage it.

Behaviour is a form of communication and most of these pupils are communicating something.

Absolutely this!!! Especially in primary schools!

I have argued so many times that whilst I am MANAGING the needs of certain children in my class I am not capable of MEETING their needs and therefore they are not making the individual progress they are capable of making! I can only do so much as a non specialist teacher with my basic makaton and use of pecs symbols...whilst also teaching 29 other children how to read abs write..differentiate... include the children that come to me with English as an additional language who are often terrified having arrived as refugees...

I find your post full of sweeping generalisations and anecdotal evidence. Behaviour is not "worse" there are different challenges that teachers face. Behavioural expectations and understanding of emotional regulation go hand in hand. You cannot compare behaviour you experience as a teacher to behaviour you witnessed when you were at primary school-it is simply not comparable in terms of context!

@Flutterby106

This week I raised my voice at my 3yo in stress. She told me to take a deep breath and calm down and that me shouting scared her, I told her I was sorry, that I am working at learning how to control my emotions better

Unbelievable. Good luck to her when she tries that on with her teachers.

Right! That right there is WHY we are on this thread

Gentle parenting. Kids rule the house these days they are the focus. Before they fitted In with the family and had to get on with it a lot more. Also kids were disciplined a lot more and parents are too scared to do that these days.

Like, for example, I am not scared of the police. I see them as friendly people who support and help me. I always smile and say hello when I walk past them. However I do not break the law as I am shit scared of being arrested and the punishment that would come with that.

The thing is, I don't think this is the same. The average adult has absolutely no problem sticking to the law if they choose to, it's not difficult. Things which are illegal and you'd be arrested for generally require a decent amount of thought, planning and intent or chronically poor impulse control of a level which is well below most adults. But children don't really have that luxury. The rules we expect them to stick to are not always easy. They do fuck up - they are expected to, it's part of learning and it's because they are immature.

I don't think parenting should be like policing. If you want to make an analogy that adults can relate to their own lives, it's more like training by a manager or supervisor in a job. And while yes, you could be fired (which is scary) if you REALLY fuck up, there are also lower-level discipline policies in most jobs which are intended to be a warning rather than scary in themselves, which deal with the lower level fuckups, and managers/supervisors will have even lower levels than this to address inevitable mistakes and day to day corrections of minor things that employees (especially trainees) will often get wrong. Those lower level interactions should absolutely not be scary, and employees should feel free to come to their manager/supervisor for feedback without feeling anxious that the feedback is going to make them feel terrible.

so why are people thinking or seeing that children cannot concentrate anymore ? Is it because real life is boring in class in comparison then and to wit mind switches off?

Yes imo. And it's worse since the pandemic. Classes who can't sit still, pay attention and get on with stuff are totally different if you put them in a computer room or allow them to use their own devices (e.g. to research a topic).

Imo it's not just that rl stuff in class is boring by comparison, it's that screens have become an escape and a (short-term) self-soothing device. It's getting harder and harder for kids (and many adults) to go without that for even a few hours. I think that is partly responsible for the increased anxiety, volatility and tense interpersonal interactions we are seeing in kids in schools. Increasing numbers of them can't actually cope with remaining in a lesson for an hour. Getting overwhelmed and just walking out of a lesson is a common occurrence atm.

@Timeforausernamechange22

The “bad” behaviour, the extreme stuff, is no worse then it has ever been. There have always been “naughty” kids and overall, I think current teens are far better behaved then us in the 90s. However in the context of schools, the worst behaved would most like be sent to an alternative provision/excluded/sen school etc whereas now they are in mainstream so it’s more visible to a regular class teacher. But I think what most teachers are complaining about when they mention behaviour getting worse is what is known as low level disruption. There is a culture now where students to not respect teachers, they answer back, they talk over, and there is a huge sense of entitlement and just a massive lack of consideration of other people. This is probably caused by a lack of punishment and gentle parenting where parents are encourage to make their child, their child’s feelings, the centre of everything. They aren’t taught to be compassionate and considerate to other people enough. When you tell students off because they are disrupting the lesson and preventing the rest of the class from learning, they just don’t care because their feelings matter most.

It’s a bloody hard balance to want your kid to be comfortable in themselves, confident and assertive, and to teach them that their voice and opinion matters whilst also wanting them to be kind, considerate and caring to other.

I think this is very true and perhaps this is the issue. I don't mind this behaviour in the home and I suspect many parents these days are of like mind with me. My kids don't even have a concept of "talking back" because they are not expected to shut up and not have an opinion or defend themselves when an adult speaks to them. That's not the same BTW as making the child the centre of everything and never considering others. They are asked to wait if somebody else is speaking. And I have spoken to my child about disruptive behaviour in the classroom and how it affects others, when it has been a problem.

There are two definitions of respect, one meaning defer to and the other meaning consider another's needs and feelings. I definitely consider the second meaning important but I think the first is outdated and doesn't have a place. But if teachers are going in expecting the first kind of respect and students have only ever known the second, then there's definitely going to be a clash.

@Fairislefandango thank you for replying , that does completely make sense reading through.
I read on here a lot that taking away devices is negative to the children as they use it as a self soothing tool.
And you do see people on their phones all the time , at parks , at pick up time , soft play , I'm guilty of taking pics at these places to capture the moment
I remember when my son was young ( he's 22 now ) how angry he would get when I told him it was time to put the game boy away and wind down for bedtime .. I would imagine phones etc are far more addictive now
But also I know that when my girl has over stepped a line the punishment of removing her phone would be the consequence that she would absolutely hate the most
And I would follow through because as much as I love my child they need to know there are rules don't they and consequences to shitty behaviour

Lots of reason, but the most predominant reason, parents. Child does something wrong, parent is informed, takes personal offence immediately ‘he wouldn’t have done that, it can’t be true, I’m not accepting that..’ or child is given a consequence, tells parent, parent storms in ‘why did she miss 5 minutes of her break, she didn’t do anything wrong…’ Said children witness all this and are very aware of their parents’ attitudes. It has a massive impact on how they respect the school and it’s rules, they simply think it doesn’t apply to them because that’s what their parents are showing them.

Although it is bigger than allowing a child to eat or not eat a meal, isn’t it? Everything is a choice which is hard when an institution is catering for the many. Actually I’m pretty certain I haven’t taught children who have been parented in this way

No - that's not gentle parenting, not as I understand it anyway.

It's not 'everything is a choice'. In the example the pp gave about dinner - there was no choice as to whether the TV was turned off. It was going off because it was dinner time. But the parent can acknowledge that the child feels upset about that, that it's hard when we have to stop doing something we enjoy, and show empathy and a bit of consideration for their feelings by allowing them a minute to lie face down on the sofa and regulate themselves, and in theory they had the choice to stay there/ not join dinner time but in fact the child trotted in to join dinner a few moments later quite happily, as usually happens with toddlers. The boundary is very much there - tv off and dinner served at dinner time. The choice is to eat or not eat it, but to be fair that's the choice whether you drag them screaming to the dinner table or not. Unless you're planning to forcefeed. Just like in your classroom example you can say 'Art lesson is finished now, I can see you're sad about that. I love how much you love art, that's so great. We will do art again on Wednesday/ Maybe if we get everything finished in time this afternoon you will have time to do a bit more/ Perhaps you could take a sketchpad out at break with you - whatever is possible/ appropriate to offer. But the art things are going away now and it's time for French. - You've acknowledged their feelings and given them the language they might need to express themselves about it next time, recognised it's important to them but also held the boundary. If a child really struggled with transitions between lessons there's all sorts of stuff that you will no doubt already have in place around that, but it definitely won't have come from the fact that their parent didn't force them to eat dinner when they didn't want to, or just gave them a bit of understanding and time to process their feelings before starting dinner as was the case in that example.

I don't really see any conflict between gentle parenting done properly and good classroom behaviour. I promise you the children I've taught where behaviour has been a big issue have not been the ones who have parents who are doing gentle parenting right.

good , solid, predictable parenting with clear routines, boundaries and emotional warmth - it keeps being suggested on this thread that this is the opposite of gentle parenting when it's exactly what everything I've read about gentle parenting/ every example I've seen of it done well is based on. It's certainly what I'm aiming for.

Maybe it's the word gentle that's confusing - both to those who claim to be following it and to those who criticise it.