Ukraine Invasion: Part 20

[HappyWinter]

Thanks to everyone for taking part in the thread.

BREAKING - Putin considers peace talks to be at a ‘dead end’

Oliver Carroll @olliecarroll
As Russians look to finally take Mariupol - amid unconfirmed claims of chemical weapons use - its worth reflecting that a Facebook group for relatives looking for missing loved ones now has 140k members.

Apparently the Russians are reporting there is still resistance in Mariupol around Illichivets stadium and the Azovstal plant.

That's worrying, is there anything other countries can do to stop that happening, @TargusEasting?

The energy issue is important, I hope we are able to cut back as it is funding the war, I wonder if people will be more open to cutting back domestically due to the high cost of fuel and energy anyway and that could free up more for industry or the rest of Europe.

Forgive my ignorance, what would happen if America pulled out of Iran? Where else are America, nato, western countries, UN troops in other countries? Other than the nato troops now in Europe.

Brianna Keilar @brikeilarcnn
JUST NOW: Donetsk Region Military Governor Pavlo Kyrylenko says 20,000-22,000 dead in Mariupol based on info from diff source, figure is preliminary, not verified. He says Russian forces are taking Ukrainian bodies to separatist controlled areas to hide casualties.

Honestly just watching sky news, everything feels useless today what with sunak and boris being fined and calls for them to resign, alleged chemical attack, putins ridiculous words on why they’ve gone to war and saying peace talks are at a dead end. How on earth is this going to ever end.

I’m OK then….

@littledrummergirl

My dad was a peacekeeper in Bosnia. It's not as simple as protecting the Ukrainians.

Imagine being a peacekeeper in Mariupol, having the Ukrainian fighters with you but your orders are to hand them over to the Russians to keep the peace.

You know what is likely to happen to them if you hand them over, but to not do this will have a ripple effect that could cause more harm to others.
Do you follow orders, object to orders but carry them out anyway knowing you don't have all of the information, or do you ignore your orders?
How do you live with yourself afterwards? We have many ex servicemen living on the streets, unable to cope in civilian life. The horrors they have seen and some of things they did will never leave them. We need to think long and hard about how, why and what we expect from any peacekeeping force we send.
I understand why we are waiting.
Unfortunately the rules of peacekeeping have to work both ways.

Thank you for explaining and sharing your father’s experience.

@Igotjelly

BREAKING - Putin considers peace talks to be at a ‘dead end’

Well at least its now out in the open.

Anyone who believed that peace talks had any chance up to this point, wasn't paying enough attention.

Putin had NO intention of making peace that didn't involve a full capitulation of Ukraine. Why would that change? His future as leader depends on a victory.

All thats happened here is the West are being shown this reality. Too many people still haboured this fantasy idea that really deep down Putin is still a good bloke at heart, who cares about ordinary Russians and Ukrainians.

Now maybe we can concerntrate on the fact he's a bastard and the only way this thing is ending is by a grind or some sort of political or military collapse in one side.

There will be no talks before May at the earliest. Maybe then.

max seddon @maxseddon
Putin dragged Lukashenko to a cosmodrome in far eastern Russia for this. He claims he has secret information about how mysterious “Englishmen” staged a “provocation” in Bucha. Not clear if he means the whole thing is fake or if they murdered hundreds and pretended Russia did it

They've just taken a British POW in Mariupol...

Russia are not regarding him as a POW saying he is a hired mercenary. Zelensky needs to pay back a favour and confirm he is a member of the Ukranian Army. Otherwise he will be used for greater propaganda and bargaining.

@TargusEasting

Russia are not regarding him as a POW saying he is a hired mercenary. Zelensky needs to pay back a favour and confirm he is a member of the Ukranian Army. Otherwise he will be used for greater propaganda and bargaining.

Depends if he is a citizen and whether its a legal option. He was serving in the 36th Brigade.

Even then given the disregard for the Geneva Convention over POWs and war crimes, I'd argue it makes no difference anyway. He will be used for greater propaganda and bargaining.

Tim White @TWMCLtd
President @ZelenskyyUa has refused to host #Germany's Head of State.

'Bild' reports that "because of his close ties with Russia" German President Steinmeier would not be welcomed for an official visit to #Kyiv.

@RedToothBrush

Tim White *@TWMCLtd* President *@ZelenskyyUa* has refused to host #Germany's Head of State.

'Bild' reports that "because of his close ties with Russia" German President Steinmeier would not be welcomed for an official visit to #Kyiv.

Terrible mistake.

Ukraine needs a united Europe.

Apparently about 300 from the 36th Brigade in Mariupol are thought to have surrendered today and yesterday.

The Azov are also in Mariupol but look to be in a slightly different pocket in the city.

@RedToothBrush

Tim White *@TWMCLtd* President *@ZelenskyyUa* has refused to host #Germany's Head of State.

'Bild' reports that "because of his close ties with Russia" German President Steinmeier would not be welcomed for an official visit to #Kyiv.

BREAKING: German President Steinmeier was planning to come to Kyiv tomorrow, but Selenskyj didnt want to meet him. Backround: Steinmeiers close ties to russia in the past years and his role with Northstream II and the so called „Steinmeier-Formel“.

Paul Ronzheimer @ronzheimer

Thorsten Benner @thorstenbenner
German president Steinmeier planned to visit Kyiv tomorrow but @ZelenskyyUa doesn't want to see him (according to BILD).

Ukrainian diplomat: "At the moment, he is not welcome in Kyiv. We'll see whether this changes".

^Steinmeier not looking happy having received news of Ukraine blocking trip:
Says he wanted to send "strong signal of EU solidarity" alongside presidents of Baltics & Poland.^

"I was ready but apparently (and I need to take note) this was not desired in Kyiv".

I actually think thats reasonably positive about understanding.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

What is perverse is the UK not dealing with our poorly insulated housing, which is the quickest and easiest way to reduce bills.

That is a bit of whataboutery in the context of the thread.

No it isn't because the UK still sends millions to Putin for his gas & oil and the quickest way to rid our selves of that is to insulate houses.

Our plan is to stop all oil imports by the end of this year, so that will be a total of $4 billion to his military machine by then.

Its all very well for us here in the UK to cast our critical eye over Germany whilst keeping quiet about what we are not doing.

We should stop ALL trade with Russia, today - every single bit of it, because every $ we send him will buy one bullet and that bullet may find its way into the back of a Ukrainian, tied up and blindfolded.

@RedToothBrush

Tim White *@TWMCLtd* President *@ZelenskyyUa* has refused to host #Germany's Head of State.

'Bild' reports that "because of his close ties with Russia" German President Steinmeier would not be welcomed for an official visit to #Kyiv.

I read this earlier, fair play to Zelenskyy. Maybe public opinion and shaming will convince the Germans, because nothing else is working with them.

I can't blame Zelenksyy for that. Perhaps not the best way but the man is fighting for his people and must be incredibly frustrated. Least he's not pretending!

I'm gathering German public opinion is not supportive of their leaders either, so, perhaps their government need to have a rethink, snd sharpish

*No it isn't because the UK still sends millions to Putin for his gas & oil and the quickest way to rid our selves of that is to insulate houses.

Our plan is to stop all oil imports by the end of this year, so that will be a total of $4 billion to his military machine by then.

Its all very well for us here in the UK to cast our critical eye over Germany whilst keeping quiet about what we are not doing.

We should stop ALL trade with Russia, today - every single bit of it, because every $ we send him will buy one bullet and that bullet may find its way into the back of a Ukrainian, tied up and blindfolded.*

But the government has just released its paper on the future of energy in the UK and it has addressed all these issues. They are going to build a special type of smaller nuclear power station in each town that doesn't exist yet. Also unicorns.

Definitely don't blame Zelensky for saying no, hopefully has a positive impact on German decision making.

But agree @Alexandra2001 we all (the countries) need to stop importing from Russia, can't keep putting it off. Bloody Nokia only just decided to pull out of Russia, really put me off buying anything from them again. And Europe as a group needs to help each other out with the countries that will suffer more from stopping trade with Russia. But governments need to soften the blow on the population, subsidise the rising energy prices (looking at the UK there in particular, that is ridiculous what's going on there, prices haven't risen anywhere near that much here so its not because they have to but because they can get away with it in the UK)

We should stop ALL trade with Russia, today - every single bit of it, because every $ we send him will buy one bullet and that bullet may find its way into the back of a Ukrainian, tied up and blindfolded.

If we don't trade we can't spy. Those companies that have been "dragging their feet" in pulling out of Russia may well have been using that time to plant backdoors and exploitable vulnerabilities into kit the Russians are using.

You'd think with a film about Operation Mincemeat coming out soon, people would be more on the ball.

Of course it may be that these firms were merely greedy and trying to make as much money as possible.

But the more confusion and distrust that can be sown in some areas the better.

Nokia only just pulled out ? They must have put stuff real deep ...

Well, in that case I hope they were slow to pull out for that reason, but sadly it feels more likely it was because they were hoping things might blow over before they had to go through the effort of pulling out.
Hesburger has been taking its sweet time too but I don't think they have a spying excuse, not sure how much spying you can do with burgers...