Ukraine Invasion: Part 20

[HappyWinter]

Thanks to everyone for taking part in the thread.

@Alexandra2001

I thought the Neptune is a very modern missile, only just bought into service last year? Plus if the Russian navy is as good as its infantry, hardly surprising they can't use the anti missile tech they have.

fwiw my Fil used be on nuclear subs, he says they once shadowed the Russian cruiser Kiev to meters and the Russian radar couldn't detect them, seems things haven't improved much for their Navy.

Ukraine only just finished development last year. Its roll out was delayed by the start of the war. It was only declared service ready at the start of April. This is pretty much the very first time they've been able to even think of using it.

Its pretty mad to consider. So this one is homegrown tech not supplied by West. Theyve only got a few because its so new but I think its proved its worth.

They have been sent Harpoons by the British in the last week which do a similar job but apparently have a slightly shorter range and aren't quite as powerful. The US are also sending their equivalent.

I'd say they probably won't get any use because this event will scare Russian boats off from getting too close to the coast, but for the fact this is Russia and they have demonstrated in this war that making the same mistake repeatedly is ingrained into their (lack of) training.

Anyway I think post war, Ukraine are going to have a product much in demand. Wonder if the likes of Indian are rethinking their position...

Darren McCaffery @darrenmccaffery
NEW: Deputy Chair of Russia's Security Council Dmitry Medvedev says Russia will take measures in the Baltic if Sweden and Finland join NATO

Turkey confirms they rescued 54 sailors from the Moskva. That's impressive off a burning ship, with 6-12 foot seas at night.

Wonder if they have taken the survivors back to Turkey.

Russia threatening action in the Baltics should Finland/Sweden be allowed to join NATO... but will NATO step up to the plate or be intimidated by Putin?

@YorkshireLondonMiss

Just watching the bbc news whilst getting ready for work and they’re talking about a new policy they’re considering about sending those seeking asylum to Rwanda as a deterrent so that they don’t come here?! I assume this would also cover those fleeing Ukraine…I appreciate that we should have some degree of processing for people coming into the U.K. and I understand the need to try and discourage people making treacherous journeys across the channel at the hands of people smugglers but this just makes us sound awful.

The suggestion is it would apply to single men only (why the sexism?) and given that currently Ukrainian men can't leave Ukraine it won't apply to those coming to the UK from Ukraine.

@RedToothBrush

Darren McCaffery *@darrenmccaffery* NEW: Deputy Chair of Russia's Security Council Dmitry Medvedev says Russia will take measures in the Baltic if Sweden and Finland join NATO

Now is most definitely the time to say: "Oh, yeah ? What you gonna do ? Sink boats at us ?" and say that as loudly as you can across the globe so there is no doubt Putin (and more importantly the people keeping him in power) hears it. Ideally with an interpretive dance routine.

@PestorPeston

Turkey confirms they rescued 54 sailors from the Moskva. That's impressive off a burning ship, with 6-12 foot seas at night.

Wonder if they have taken the survivors back to Turkey.

There's space in Rwanda.

Phillips P OBrien @phillipspobrien
You know whose probably most affected by the sinking of the Moskva? I would say China. Another example of how this war is shaking up the strategic calculus and will, hopefully, make countries think twice about starting wars in the future.

The Moskva was the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet and was supposedly well protected by anti-missile systems. Yet the Ukrainians, who have had little experience of anti-ship missiles, have taken out this very valuable Russian asset.

In a nutshell any Chinese naval attempt to attack Taiwan, or indeed a US and allies attempt to send lots of warships near the Chinese coast, would open up the possibilities of mass numbers of Moskva’s.

Yes these fleets will probably operate their anti missile systems better than the Russians. But in the end it’s much cheaper and effective to have many more missiles than ships: so missile numbers can overwhelm defensive measures.

As we are learning about the real vulnerability of tanks on land to hand held or UAV systems, so we are learning about how easy it is to take out a major warship. A terrible but perhaps a necessary lesson to restrict war like choices going forward

Btw; both China and Taiwan are mass producing anti ship missiles. Ships approaching their coasts in war stand the chance of being targeted by many more missiles than they could possibly defend against.

Yes Neptune has a longer range than the Harpoon land based system, 300km but remember the Russian Cruise's have an even further range.

Zero sympathy for the crew, this is the same crew that had no problem attacking Mariupol or numerous Syrian civilian targets

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@littledrummergirl - re the sinking of the Moskva affecting Falklands veterans veterans I am sure you are right.[/quote]
Falklands/Exocet came as a bit of a wake up to those navies who hadn't really thought about the missile threat. It certainly led a bit of a rethink about missile defences, fire prevention/suppression and damage control onboard.

Looks like the Russians didn't get the memo.

TBF to the Russians, this ship was launched in 1979, hardly cutting edge, regardless of whatever anti missile tech it has on board.

Can't really imagine the USA or the UK navies calling a 43 year old boat its "flagship"

That'll be another item India is crossing off their "reasons to buy Russian (1-2-3)" list.

I would be disappointed if someone from UK defence firms hadn't already dropped an email to them.

Politicshome @politicshome
The Home Office has emailed MPs telling them they will no longer provide updates on Ukrainian refugee visa cases despite people being left stranded for weeks
www.politicshome.com/news/article/home-office-tells-mps-to-stop-chasing-urgent-ukrainian-visa-cases-as-they-stop-providing-updates
Home Office Tells MPs To Stop "Chasing" Urgent Ukrainian Refugee Visa Case Updates

This is awful.

I personally know someone who has been in regular touch with our MP because she's had so many problems with her visa applications for the family she is sponsoring. Information she has entered has suddenly changed and is incorrect so was blocking the visa. She can't get through to the home office directly to change this, so was relying on our mp's office to help. This family were still in Ukraine last time I saw her at the end of last week. She was desperately trying to reassure her family. They are in an area that has been badly affected and have 3 small kids.

The Independent @independent
Russia warns that Sweden and Finland joining Nato would end ‘nuclear-free Baltics’

Does this mean that Russia's response is going to be moving a few nukes to the Baltics?

That way it can say its done something without actually doing much?

And there will be some nice satellite and surveillance opportunities.

@RedToothBrush I ve written to my MP on 4 occasions asking her to help me with my Ukrainian family.

The whole process is a nightmare, no further forward now than i was weeks ago.

They've put ALL the onus on us, there is zero help from Govt or agencies, just a useless helpline, the councils are at the end of the process and have no clue either.

We had a room and a mum and child but no more, they are going elsewhere, so its give up or start again - we have given up.

Notes from Poland @notesfrompoland
After Warsaw seized a former diplomatic compound that Russia refused to hand over despite a court ordering it to do so, the Kremlin has declared it a "gross violation of international law".

They accuse Poland of "fuelling a Russophobic atmosphere"

Jakub Jaraczewski @J_Jaraczewski
🇪🇺🇷🇺 Russia's "we will react to this accordingly" is European Commission's "we are gravely concerned", pretty much.

But I have to admit, it's not easy being a Russian on the Polish internet these days. However, I wouldn't call it "russophobia" as much as a "special cultural operation with a very limited scope and clear goals".

Besides, an argument about the Polish government "stroking russophobia" only works if you're unaware of how, hmm, how to put it, passionate Poles were about Russia to begin with.

Russia: There will be consequences for NATO countries delivering weapons to Ukraine.
Poland: yawn
Russia: We will take serious measures.
Poland: drives a triple-digit number of T-72 and BMP-1 into Ukraine on a highway in the middle of a day
Russia: does nothing

Unfortunately, this is very similar to how the European Union vs. Polish rule of law crisis situation has been unfolding for years.

[quote Alexandra2001]@RedToothBrush I ve written to my MP on 4 occasions asking her to help me with my Ukrainian family.

The whole process is a nightmare, no further forward now than i was weeks ago.

They've put ALL the onus on us, there is zero help from Govt or agencies, just a useless helpline, the councils are at the end of the process and have no clue either.

We had a room and a mum and child but no more, they are going elsewhere, so its give up or start again - we have given up.[/quote]
I think it is important the remember that the current UK government don't actually want to go to the effort of having Ukrainian refugees coming here. They want to be able to say there was a scheme, and oh dear, not many people applied and really many of the host families were not suitable, and that is hardly our (the government's fault).

Re refugees on the Homes for Refugees scheme -
Do we know if any have got through other than those on the original scheme who have family here? Or is there the possibility that Homes for Refugees is all secretly false?

Surprisingly my MP’s caseworker resolved my case in a few days and my MP is Raab!

News from my sources in Moscow:
1. Shoigu is out of the game, he may become disabled if he survives. He suddenly had a massive heart attack, he is in intensive care, connected to the devices. Rumor has it that the heart attack could not have occurred from natural causes.

twitter.com/Nevzlin/status/1514494028368302080

@jgw1 Completely agree and makes me wonder why the Govt is actively seeking to get up to 5m HK Chinese to come to the UK who however well deserving, are not fleeing war, rape, murder and genocide.

Currently arriving at 3k per week, placing enormous strain on councils, will never return, are often older and not economically active (even if they have private funds)

Yet we put up barrier after barrier to stop very vulnerable women and children coming here, its an outrage.

**Now is most definitely the time to say: "Oh, yeah ? What you gonna do ? Sink boats at us ?" and say that as loudly as you can across the globe so there is no doubt Putin (and more importantly the people keeping him in power) hears it. Ideally with an interpretive dance routine.

This made me laugh out loud 😂. I would also want to suggest flag waving is included in the dance routine.

@ShinyHat22

Surprisingly my MP’s caseworker resolved my case in a few days and my MP is Raab

So it seems the scheme truly is up and running to some degree?

@Hillsmakeyoustrong

**Now is most definitely the time to say: "Oh, yeah ? What you gonna do ? Sink boats at us ?" and say that as loudly as you can across the globe so there is no doubt Putin (and more importantly the people keeping him in power) hears it. Ideally with an interpretive dance routine.

This made me laugh out loud 😂. I would also want to suggest flag waving is included in the dance routine.

I only say that as it seems Zelensky has some serious Strictly moves to show of. Can't see Putin being quite so graceful. Mind you, he could plonk a tune out ?

@Alexandra2001

Russia threatening action in the Baltics should Finland/Sweden be allowed to join NATO... but will NATO step up to the plate or be intimidated by Putin?

Putin is doing his level best to enlarge NATO.

If France (for example) threatened the UK over joining a similar club, the response would be 'fuck off'. I can't see Helsinki and Stockholm being too impressed by the threats.