Ukraine Invasion: Part 20

[HappyWinter]

Thanks to everyone for taking part in the thread.

Indeed, though I hope the crew have been able to evacuate the ship and will be rescued.

If a missile has hit the ship and set off all the munitions on the deck and they've had to abandon ship in fairly bad weather, then I'm guessing that the Russian media claim that everyone is alive and well, isn't likely to be true.

There's a crew of 500. Its probably going to be the biggest single loss of men in the war so far for Russia.

Rob Lee @RALee85
A Russian source is saying the Moskva has sunk and that the explosion was from a Ukrainian Neptun missile strike. Apparently, Ukraine flew a TB2 UCAV to distract the ship while it was targeted by the Neptun. The ship rolled onto its side after the strike.

I know. Having studied a little about the loss of the "Queen Mary" in WWI and the "Hood" in WWII, I'm shuddering at the thought of this.

Though those both involved the magazine being penetrated, and this is being described as a strike on deck ammunition. Must be something like that if the report of the "Moskva" as on fire is true. When the magazine goes up, there is no ship to be on fire.

Fuck me, all this horror for some wee-willied He-Man's pointless sense of pride.

OSINT UK @jon96179496
While unconfirmed at this stage, sources indicate:

There were multiple explosions heard on Moskva & a fire followed. Power was lost immediately. Some evacuations were done but were hampered due to bad weather (27km/h winds & 2 meter waves). The Moskva capsized on the port side.

A flagship cruiser like the Moskva by all accounts should’ve been able to defend itself against 2 Neptunes. It reportedly has OSA-M & S-300F missiles, along with AK-630 CIWS. The fact that these measures don’t seem to have worked illustrate far larger problems for Russian forces.

I have to say, reading up on what happened to the Kursk submarine over 20 years ago, you have to wonder if they learned anything from it:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_submarine_disaster

Re Chernobaevka:
By all accounts new satellite images were published yesterday morning where new Russian equipment in the airport were visible - and it was a strike on an ammunition dump there by the Ukrainians.

The Russians apparently haven't learned anything from the other 13 or 14 times they've parked at the airport...

The first batch of stamps have had to be recalled. They will be reissuing these ones soon.

And on that note, I'm off to bed.

We shall see what tomorrow brings and how Putin deals with this humiliation.

However pleased I am that Ukraine is hitting back, I can only feel for those on board right now and hope as few lives as possible were lost.

Closer to home we have serving men from the falklands conflict about to go into a tough part of the year and this is liable to cause nightmares and flashbacks for those who were caught in the ships then.

Thank you to all those who post here. I have been following for the entire 20 threads, and it is so interesting to read.

Whichever way Russia paints the Moskva loss, it will have a material effect on morale. That is good, because it’s a collapse in Russian morale that will bring the war to an end - the only thing really. And thereby Putin too. I have an idea what happens then, but it’s too early to tell.

I thought those stamps would be worth their weight in gold when I first saw them. Many times that now.

I'm glad it's down. Another environmental catastrophe though.

I thought the Neptune is a very modern missile, only just bought into service last year?
Plus if the Russian navy is as good as its infantry, hardly surprising they can't use the anti missile tech they have.

fwiw my Fil used be on nuclear subs, he says they once shadowed the Russian cruiser Kiev to meters and the Russian radar couldn't detect them, seems things haven't improved much for their Navy.

Just watching the bbc news whilst getting ready for work and they’re talking about a new policy they’re considering about sending those seeking asylum to Rwanda as a deterrent so that they don’t come here?! I assume this would also cover those fleeing Ukraine…I appreciate that we should have some degree of processing for people coming into the U.K. and I understand the need to try and discourage people making treacherous journeys across the channel at the hands of people smugglers but this just makes us sound awful.

Invasion of Ukraine to push global defence spend above $2.2 trillion by 2026

Eisenhower again:

"Every bullet made ..."

Russian ship of state's shrinking into a rowing boat isn't it?

I'm pretty sure there are a number of dispensations for Ukrainian refugees which means they can get obtain a visa and come straight to the UK. They are coming here temporarily and hope to be able to go home in the future. They are not asylum seekers and will not be sent to Rwanda.

The Russians apparently haven't learned anything from the other 13 or 14 times they've parked at the airport...

Considering they were openly bragging about hitting UA resupplies for exactly the same reason it's just another realisation about the emperors new clothes.

It's worth remembering that 50% of the arguments against going to war are that a war isn't the best place to find out you were wrong. Much better to avoid war with credible threats.

Right now, Russias credibility is sub zero. Which could be a problem if they find themselves literally unable to control their forces. Was it MacArthur the US had to recall pronto from Korea ?

Funny, a few weeks ago the biggest topic was whether Ben Wallace had been unkind claiming Putin had gone "full Tonto". A more innocent age.

@WeAreTheHeroes

I'm pretty sure there are a number of dispensations for Ukrainian refugees which means they can get obtain a visa and come straight to the UK. They are coming here temporarily and hope to be able to go home in the future. They are not asylum seekers and will not be sent to Rwanda.

What about a young Ukrainian man who, fed up with the very long delays in processing visas, gets caught up with people smugglers and takes a dingy across the channel?

Or is it done on the colour of ones skin?

As Kay Burley pointed out, all the gangs have to do is target women & children to take across the channel.

It's absolutely terrible, this idea. So cruel.

@Alexandra2001 - let me be clear: I do not support the sending of asylum seekers to Rwanda. It's a hideous idea, but not much surprises me from this out of touch Tory govt.

Ukrainian men over 18 can't leave Ukraine because of the mobilisation rules in place there.

I'm not sure whether Kay Burley is someone we should listen to. That 'example' is pretty extreme.

@WeAreTheHeroes
With Priti Patel in charge of it, she would just love to make that a reality.

@YorkshireLondonMiss
Just watching the bbc news whilst getting ready for work and they’re talking about a new policy they’re considering about sending those seeking asylum to Rwanda as a deterrent so that they don’t come here?! I assume this would also cover those fleeing Ukraine…I appreciate that we should have some degree of processing for people coming into the U.K. and I understand the need to try and discourage people making treacherous journeys across the channel at the hands of people smugglers but this just makes us sound awful

Having not heard the full details it is difficult to comment, but somehow it sounds like a nasty deportation system.

Trent Telenko @TrentTelenko
Via DM, Moskva ammo detonation & related corruption:

"More than 692 million rubles were stolen from the Northern Fleet from the 1 billion rubles allocated for the repair of anti-aircraft missile systems (SAMs) "Kinzhal", "Uragan" and "Krepost'" - Kommersant

From RTB's post.

That means that just over 2/3 of the repair money was stolen.

That's ... incredible. Just incredible. 692 billion roubles, stolen. Two thirds.

I’m just in awe of the UA. What an army!

Imagine if they had at their disposal what Russia or other NATO nations have. They’d have wiped Russia out in a week. So humiliating for Russia to face this disadvantaged enemy give them hell.

@littledrummergirl - re the sinking of the Moskva affecting Falklands veterans veterans I am sure you are right.

It's a one-way ticket to Rwanda.

Minister being crucified on R4 over partygate which isn't going away any time soon.

Tories have lost their window of opportunity to dump Boris before May. Oh dear.

@ScrollingLeaves it wasn’t a large segment so I’m not sure of the ins and outs but it certainly irritated me. The gentleman speaking was from Afghanistan and his parents sent him here via unconventional means during the soviet-Afghan war, he’s now a doctor in the NHS (definitely close to my heart as a fellow NHS worker!). I think his point was that these are also human beings, they’re not coming here for an amazing life they just want to feel safe and not live in a basement under fire for 2 years like he did. Our government is really starting to grind my gears.