Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 20

997 replies

HappyWinter · 11/04/2022 21:30

Thanks to everyone for taking part in the thread.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
51
TiddyTidTwo · 14/04/2022 00:03

This is reportedly from the Chernobaevka airfield in Kherson, #Ukraine.

No, not nuclear explosion.
Ukraine forces are shelling the positions of Russian troops. There is an assumption they could have hit the ammunition depot of the Russian Armed Forces. Waiting for confirm.

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 00:03

Some interesting comments below Trent's thread I think worth noting, about what to watch for on this:

Paul Levchuk @CoffeeAndPaul
The Moskva hull was originally designed to be a carrier. The Russians changed her design to a heavy cruiser to save funds. She's very large for a cruiser, a good 20% larger than a typical guided missile cruiser. She likely has the thickest hull in the Russian fleet. A tough boat

Harrie @slikdrop
Here's a nice photo. Looks like a HE missile hitting the deck could do a lot of damage though. And if it sets one of the dozen missile batteries on fire...

Tiberius Vindex @TiberiusVindex
One thing we'll be finding out is how well the Russians do damage control on their ships. My guess is not very well.

TiddyTidTwo · 14/04/2022 00:04

Have the Ukrainians got new toys all of a sudden?

Lots happening tonight...

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 00:11

@TiddyTidTwo

Have the Ukrainians got new toys all of a sudden?

Lots happening tonight...

The US reported today that they were getting weapons from the US to the battlefield in 48hrs earlier today.

Jack Detsch @JackDetsch
U.S. aid is moving faster than ever, sometimes from stateside to Ukrainian troops on the battlefield within 48 hours, the senior U.S. defense official said.

They've said that two big deliveries had just come in...

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 00:12

Ooops

Jimmy @JimmySecUK
Holy shit. They actually did it. 🔥🇺🇦

Russian state media confirming the Moskva, flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, is burning and has been evacuated!

Ukraine Invasion: Part 20
TiddyTidTwo · 14/04/2022 00:15

Thought so Red.

I pray this is the turning point

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 00:15

Christo Grozev @christogrozev
Incredible. Russia's flagship missile cruiser, the famous "Moskva", has been destroyed by Ukraine, Russia admits (saying it was "seriously damaged by fire")
ria.ru/20220414/kreyser-1783435471.html

Crew evacuated.

Russian Warship go fuck yourself indeed.

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 00:17

Jimmy @JimmySecUK
TASS confirming now as well - the Moskva is burning and has been abandoned. 🔥🇺🇦

BoreOfWhabylon · 14/04/2022 00:19

No doubt it will be attributed to spontaneous combustion.

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 00:19

Christo Grozev @christogrozev
If you don't know what the Moskva cruiser is, read the wiki page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cruiser_Moskva
Not only was it the Black Sea's military flagship, it was a an icon of pride. Can't begin to imagine how the Kremlin will spin this to Russians.

Quick to the Downfall Parody Generator!

blueshoes · 14/04/2022 00:24

Russian Warship Fucked

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 00:25

Some speculation that this one provided the protection for the other ships in the area...

Artem Russakovskii @ArtemR
Ukrainian coast guard: "What are you sinking about?"

Apparently the weather ain't great...

Justin Peden @IntelCrab
Not an ideal S&R environment. Makes the Russian claim that all sailors were rescued rather unlikely.

Rare example from this war of a loss directly confirmed first NOT via OSINT or first hand account, but rather Russia itself. Shows the limits we have in an area far from direct, human observation.

And this would probably explain the above.

Alexander Clarkson @APHClarkson
The Russian Ministry of Defence would rather the world think that the Russian navy's flagship sank because of Russian incompetence rather than Ukrainian skill

BreadInCaptivity · 14/04/2022 00:27

@RedToothBrush

Zarina Zabrisky *@ZarinaZabrisky* Russia: News from #Mordor. Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Ryabkov: transportation delivering weapons to Ukraine is "legitimate military targets for the Russian Federation."

Interesting re: where they choose attack those targets....

A missile on a polish railway station or shooting down a plane over EU airspace?

Escalation and desperation......

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 00:27

Michael Weiss @michaeldweiss
Developing: Russian warship has fucked off.

I must say twitter is amusing me tonight.

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 00:30

Jeff Swanson @swanson1954
Russia will be lucky to rescue 50% of MOSKVA crew. The ship is likely sunk.
This is an incredible turn of events! MOSKVA was not only Flag Ship for Russia’s Black Sea fleet, it was also the key to their air defense. No RN vessel is now safe within 190 miles of the Ukrainian held coast.

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 00:36

Trent Telenko @TrentTelenko
Via DM, Moskva ammo detonation & related corruption:

"More than 692 million rubles were stolen from the Northern Fleet from the 1 billion rubles allocated for the repair of anti-aircraft missile systems (SAMs) "Kinzhal", "Uragan" and "Krepost'" - Kommersant

The criminal case for large-scale fraud (part 4 of article 159 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation) has been under investigation since the summer of 2019. Now its defendants are Andrey Klokotsky, ex-consultant of the Navy Department of Rosoboronexport JSC, Vadim Movchan, head of the service of development and operation of missile and artillery armament of the Navy Shipbuilding Department, as well as the heads of three special factories: Mutalib Emiraliyev, Zamir Akhmedov and Yevgeny Murashev.

Among them was Captain of the First Rank Igor Supranovich, 51, supervising the fulfillment of the state defense order for the maintenance of SAM systems Kinzhal, Osa-M, Fort, Krepost and other ships in service."

Russian corruption plus arrogance kills

Plus we know that Health & Safety of weapons handling ain't great in Russia, so I bet they didn't have the right defence and when the missile hit, everything else just went up like a firework display.

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 00:39

Michael Duitsman @DuitsyWasHere
Well played, Wikipedia. Well played.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 20
ShinyHat22 · 14/04/2022 00:52

That Wikipedia post 😂

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 00:57

Michael Bond @HelloMrBond
In light of the attack on the #Russian navy’s #Moskva, this article published hours before the strike is prescient:
“These anti-ship missiles will either annihilate the Russian Navy in the Black Sea or push it far away to near-irrelevance”
smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/why-russias-navy-ukraine-war-doomed-or-irrelevant
Why Russia’s Navy in Ukraine War is Doomed (or Irrelevant)

Ukraine is about to get (or maybe now just started receiving) Western anti-ship missiles and may even have its own advanced anti-ship missiles almost ready for deployment. A small number of such missiles could wipe out all of Russia’s big surface warships near Ukraine in the Black Sea and Sea of Azov or push Russian ships out of range and too far away to be able to meaningfully support Russia’s war effort. This missile technology in the hands of Ukraine’s competent and adaptive fighters will be a game-changer much like Javelin and other anti-tank missiles have been for Ukraine against Russian armor thus far in Putin’s failing war.

and

Russia’s Big Ships Near Ukraine: Easy Targets…

Unlike armies, with thousands of soldiers, hundreds of units, and thousands of subunits, navies are mostly tied to a very finite number of vessels, almost always dozens or hundreds of vessels per navy at most.

Meaning: take out the ships, and the navy pretty much does not exist.

Russia has cannibalized its other three fleets (Northern Fleet, Baltic Fleet, and Pacific Fleet) and its one flotilla (the Caspian Flotilla) to reinforce the Black Sea Fleet and support its Ukraine effort, and, with Turkey closing the Bosporus and Dardanelles straits to the Mediterranean in early March to incoming military vessels, that Caspian Flotilla is the only possible source of reinforcements to what is in the Black Sea, coming in though canal from the Caspian Sea

As far as sizable surface ships in the Black Sea, by mid-March there were only twenty-one, according to a “senior defense official”: just twelve naval-combat-focused ships along with nine amphibious assault ships, accompanied by numerous far smaller patrol and support boats and, of course, submarines that are harder to track.

^But that total was before the daring Ukrainian strike
on the morning of March 24, which mysteriously destroyed a large Russian amphibious ship, the now sunk^

Alligator class Saratov, docked in the eastern Ukrainian Russian-occupied port of Berdyansk. Two other large amphibious ships, the Caesar Kunikov and Novocherkassk, were damaged and fled the port.

So, scratch one, Russia is down now to just twenty major surface vessels.

That is not a large number.

and

If (and hopefully when) Neptunes can be eventually deployed, a large portion of the entire Black Sea, including most of Russian-occupied Crimea—where many of Russia’s naval vessels are based and resupplied

—as well as the Sea of Azov, would be vulnerable. And if Ukraine is able to push Russian forces in the south back closer to Crimea, even missiles with shorter range could threaten Russia’s ability to dock its ships and the entirety of Crimea more of the Black Sea could be vulnerable.

Soon, Russia’s navy will almost certainly have to turn tail and run to the southern Black Sea, unable to offer meaningful support in the ground war, or even move to port back in Russia proper (as in, the non-illegally occupied/annexed parts of Ukraine) to avoid near-total destruction. If there will be any problems or delays deploying the Neptunes, NATO should ensure longer-range anti-ship missiles, including some of the Norwegian NSMs, are provided to Ukraine so they can either destroy Russia’s navy or render it irrelevant, putting more Russian ships under range or pushing them even further back than would be the case with just, say, Harpoon missiles.

and

^A True Game-Changer: “Bye-Bye Russian Navy!“

These anti-ship missiles will either annihilate the Russian Navy in the Black Sea or push it far away to near-irrelevance (other than its ability to affect commercial shipping). This will absolutely humiliate Putin and the Russians, crush Russian morale, severely hamper the entirety of the logistical situation for the Russians as well as overall Russian efforts in southern Ukraine and on its coast, allow far more supplies to reach Ukraine’s people and military far more easily, perhaps destroy any hope of building a land bridge for Russia to Crimea (let alone one to Moldova), and also severely hamper Russia’s efforts to secure the Donbas. It could even help precipitate the collapse of the entire Russian war effort and perhaps even mutiny and revolt in the Russian military

If you scoff at such an idea, consider the last time Russia suffered such a humiliating naval defeat, in the 1904-1905 Russo-Japanese war, that defeat precipitated massive loss of prestige, unrest, military revolt, and revolution in 1905 and was a major nail in the coffin of Tsarist Russia; among the units that mutinied was the crew of the battleship Potemkin, stationed at—of all places—Odesa, an event immortalized in Sergei Eisenstein’s 1925 film.

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 01:01

Aric Toler @AricToler
You know a war is going well when you lose a fleet's flagship while fighting a country without a navy

(Yes I know Ukraine still technically has a navy but you get the point)

AlecTrevelyan006 · 14/04/2022 01:02

It hasn’t sunk - it’s conducting a special underwater operation

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 01:10

OSINT-1988 @OSINT88
MOSKVA - All Morse and Cipher signals seem to have come to an end so i would now like to say im 99.99999% sure she is getting comfy on the bottom of the Black Sea.

Sleep Tight.

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 01:15

Gabe Blessing @GabeBlessing
That was always the principal criticism of how the Soviets, and later the Russians, used to build their warships: they leave all their ordnance exposed on deck, whereas US warships shield them in VLS magazines below deck & far more resistant to battle damage. Compare:

Oh my fucking life.

Suggests that the US (and others) KNEW this was a weakness of the Russian Navy but just hadn't had the opportunity to test it out.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 20
Ukraine Invasion: Part 20
BreadInCaptivity · 14/04/2022 01:16

@AlecTrevelyan006

It hasn’t sunk - it’s conducting a special underwater operation
😂
BreadInCaptivity · 14/04/2022 01:22

@RedToothBrush

Aric Toler *@AricToler* You know a war is going well when you lose a fleet's flagship while fighting a country without a navy

(Yes I know Ukraine still technically has a navy but you get the point)

Indeed, though I hope the crew have been able to evacuate the ship and will be rescued.