Ukraine Invasion: Part 20

[HappyWinter]

Thanks to everyone for taking part in the thread.

Biden does directly claim Putin is responsible for genocide, clarifying his comments in Iowa. BBC quotes him:

"Yes, I called it genocide. It has become clearer and clearer that Putin is just trying to wipe out the idea of even being — being able to be Ukrainian," Biden said.
"The — more evidence is coming out of the — literally, the horrible things that the Russians have done in Ukraine."
"And we'll let the lawyers decide internationally whether or not it qualifies, but it sure seems that way to me."

Yep it sure seems that way to me too Biden.
And everyone else with eyes in their head.

Why have a go at Biden on this? feeding this rather sick narrative that is senile!!
Its Genocide.. we all know that & Biden is giving the Ukrainians billions in aid, military and humanitarian.

Putin and his Generals will NEVER face a court trial, so its great that we've a POTUS that says it as it is!

As for Americans shifting to a longer war because they are training up on more advanced weapons... No ones knows! but its sensible to plan for ALL out comes but most importantly Ukraine cannot win against Russia unless they get these advanced weapons & if the war is relatively short (Donbass only) then Ukraine will need them to prevent Russia doing this again.

I think Biden likes to test the water. E.g war criminal see what the response was now genocide - see what the response is.

Easy enough to go back on as I didn't mean that but also a test to see how Putin reacts

Trent Telenko @TrentTelenko India is in a bind in that high end Russian equipment is failing the test of combat in Ukraine & India's procurement system has a mismanagement problem rivaling that of the US Navy ship building program.

These threads are like Westminsterenders - that was something mentioned two weeks ago. (In a post where I said I hope India kept the receipts for the shonky Russian kit they had bought that wasn't performing so well ...)

In contrast I suspect Startstreak is suddenly very saleable.

@Alexandra2001 who is having a go at him? I've not seen anybody recoiling at this but might have missed something

Good that he said it.

@DGRossetti

Trent Telenko *@TrentTelenko* India is in a bind in that high end Russian equipment is failing the test of combat in Ukraine & India's procurement system has a mismanagement problem rivaling that of the US Navy ship building program.

These threads are like Westminsterenders - that was something mentioned two weeks ago. (In a post where I said I hope India kept the receipts for the shonky Russian kit they had bought that wasn't performing so well ...)

In contrast I suspect Startstreak is suddenly very saleable.

Yeah I've had that feeling too, post something and then it comes to pass! :D

We are just so fore-sightful nodnod

Afp news agency @afp
#BREAKING Ukraine says no humanitarian corridors Wednesday as situation 'too dangerous'^

#UPDATE Ukraine is halting all humanitarian corridors for the evacuation of civilians from war-scarred regions, accusing Russian forces of violating agreements to allow people to flee.

"The situation along the routes is too dangerous," says Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk

Afp news agency @afp
#BREAKING Over 1,000 Ukrainian soldiers have surrendered in Mariupol: Russia

That report of 1000 Ukrainian soliders seems to have some substance. It was being rumoured from Ukrainian sources that about 200 - 300 had already surrendered.

Alar Karis @alarkaris
On our way to Kyiv, to a city that has suffered terribly due to Russian war since my last visit. Together with Presidents @AndrzejDuda, @GitanasNauseda & @valstsgriba we visit #Ukraine to show strong support to 🇺🇦 people, will meet dear friend President @ZelenskyyUa #SlavaUkraini

Thats the Estonian president, Polish president, Latvian president and Lithuanian president. But not the German one.

@MagicFox

Biden does directly claim Putin is responsible for genocide, clarifying his comments in Iowa. BBC quotes him:

"Yes, I called it genocide. It has become clearer and clearer that Putin is just trying to wipe out the idea of even being — being able to be Ukrainian," Biden said.
"The — more evidence is coming out of the — literally, the horrible things that the Russians have done in Ukraine."
"And we'll let the lawyers decide internationally whether or not it qualifies, but it sure seems that way to me."

Thats actually excellent. Its the talk of ab libbing and roll back on what he's said that i dont like.

PestorPeston Mon 11-Apr-22 22:30:31
US and India seem to be best friends again
twitter.com/DeptofDefense/status/1513626330780389378

It would not be surprising that India has had a careful reflection on which side it wants to be aligned with now and in the future. Not just where to procure its weapons, but where will its citizens wish to visit, to study, to move to, to sell and trade with or to expand its businesses.

Before the war on Ukraine, Russia was no different from the US or Germany or the UK in terms of being a key partner in strategic relations. Now, it’s becoming/become a pariah and economically struggling state in the global order to the degree that India may well rethink what appeared to be its initial support for it.

Thats actually excellent. Its the talk of ab libbing and roll back on what he's said that i dont like.

Whether you like or not, he has form for this and it's not unreasonable to wonder if he's at it again.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60895392

@DrBlackbird

PestorPeston Mon 11-Apr-22 22:30:31 US and India seem to be best friends again *twitter.com/DeptofDefense/status/1513626330780389378*

It would not be surprising that India has had a careful reflection on which side it wants to be aligned with now and in the future. Not just where to procure its weapons, but where will its citizens wish to visit, to study, to move to, to sell and trade with or to expand its businesses.

Before the war on Ukraine, Russia was no different from the US or Germany or the UK in terms of being a key partner in strategic relations. Now, it’s becoming/become a pariah and economically struggling state in the global order to the degree that India may well rethink what appeared to be its initial support for it.

It will interesting what current events in Pakistan mean too. Only a few weeks ago they were BFFs - a shift marked enough to warrant a 5 minute analysis on R4.

It's also worth asking if this factor will start to drive thinking in China ? They will want their people to have access to the world, which is not going to be made any easier if that "world" feels China is supporting Russia.

[quote ChardonnaysPetDragon]Thats actually excellent. Its the talk of ab libbing and roll back on what he's said that i dont like.

Whether you like or not, he has form for this and it's not unreasonable to wonder if he's at it again.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60895392[/quote]
...and bowing and scraping to Putin has been such a success?

Putin is committing war crimes and by any definition, he is also guilty of genocide, unless you think deporting and subsequently disappearing 100s of '000s of people isn't.

As i said early, Putin will never face a trial & wont stop, so what we say about him is not going to effect the situation in Ukraine either way.

Biden is putting his money where his mouth is, arming the Ukrainians & when or if it comes to rebuilding, it'll be US and EU money that does it.

[quote ChardonnaysPetDragon]Thats actually excellent. Its the talk of ab libbing and roll back on what he's said that i dont like.

Whether you like or not, he has form for this and it's not unreasonable to wonder if he's at it again.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60895392[/quote]
Sorry, but in a world where a fucking psychotic madman is overseeing atrocities that exceed even the Nazis for depravity I refuse to accept any suggestion that a misplaced comma somehow is more of a problem.

And I am starting to wonder about where the pressure for the media to report in this way is coming from

Putin is allowing (if not ordering) his soldiers to rape babies, but somehow Biden is the bad guy here ?

Sorry - not buying it. Or even Biden it.

You are conflating the two issues here.

Putin's army pillaging is one thing.

Biden ad libbing and his staff having to clarify his meaning is a separate one.

Biden is not the bad guy!! Who is suggesting this? Everyone on this thread has said they think it's brilliant he is stating the obvious. Or am I missing something?

No one is suggesting he is the bad guy. He can however benefit from more clarity in his statements.

One person did insinuate that Biden had "forgotten" that he wasn't supposed to use the word genocide

Personally I don't see anything wrong with what he's said.

What is going on in Ukraine is horrendous but I have to disagree that it exceeds the actions of the Nazis, at this stage.

Edgars Rinkevics @edgarsrinkevics
After seeing so many horrific scenes of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by the Russian forces in #Ukraine, it is clear that only country in the world that needs real denazification is the Russian Federation

Latvian foreign minister yesterday. So looks like this is now the official line there.

Biden is there or thereabouts. So is the UK and I think several other Eastern European countries.

I've not seen anything similar from other Western European countries yet (that doesn't mean it hasn't happened - it means ive not clocked it - im not a diplomatic radar so its very possible they have). I think the two I'm looking out for particularly now are France and Germany. Germany saying it would be particularly important and significant. And notably Zelensky blocked their president from going to Kyiv with the others today. (willing to bet the g word is part of the issue here).

The silence of others in western Europe who are letting Germany take a lot of the heat on this, i do think comes from gas dependence and knowing if they say it, they need to do more on cutting the supply.

Interesting to watch who is saying it and in what order countries are saying it.

Johnson is at the 'almost genocidal' point. He has used the word; not as strongly as others and suggests the threshold maybe hasn't been passed but use of the word rather than war crimes is still important. It shows that it is being considered on that level. (Personally I think we now need to go the whole hog like others).

@WeAreTheHeroes

I think forgetting the genocide perpetrated by the Bosnian Serbs is more due to ignorance of it having happened for many people rather than thinking war in the former Yugoslavia wasn't in Europe.

trigger warning My dad served in Bosnia after the war. The clear up operation. He took photos of the walls of the hospital where they had shot both medics and patients. The schools - same and dredging of rivers. Women , children and pensioner shot in the head. The babies strapped to the mothers chest drowned. If I hadn't seen these photos and seen the effect it had on my dad on his return 10 months later, you wouldn't believe it. How the mayors of towns organised firing squads. It's heart breaking that in this day , history is being repeated.

Sorry if I have missed the answer to this during my lurking, but what are the consequences of defining the situation in Ukriane as genocide?

Does it legally bind countries into taking any specific action?