Cultural Appropriation being taken too far

[KitBumbleB]

DD is early secondary age and is exploring her hobbies and interests like other kids her age. One of her friends has discovered that she loves cooking and especially likes making Chinese food.
Last night DD was furiously typing on her phone and when I asked what was up she said one of her friends was having a go at the other for "cultural appropriation" because apparently cooking food of another culture or country is wrong.
The girl who likes cooking was incredibly upset and terrified of anyone else finding out as apparently this is the worst crime a tween can commit.

DD also tells me that according to TikTok, learning a language is also appropriation, especially Japanese as it is seen as fetishism

I know this is not AIBU, but am I the only one who thinks this is nonsense and is turning harmful, its like a mindless pile up.

DD and I are not white btw

Does this also happen in Japan bellac11?

sometimes-interesting.com/thames-town-english-town-in-china/

It's just cooking dinner. Perhaps she could find a friend of Chinese heritage to say that he/she is happy for others to learn their cuisine, that always seems to pacify the 'cultural appropriation' people.

Are atheists still allowed to eat pancakes before lent starts, or is it only cultural appropriation if it comes from another country?

Learning a foreign language being a bad thing is new to me, I thought the attitude was that going to a country and not learning the language was arrogant and colonial because it assumes that everyone else in the world should learn English.

They'd lose their shit if they could see the photos of my marriage blessing in DH's home country. I stood like a doll while about six aunties wrapped me in a sari and put jasmine in my hair.

@WalkerWalking

My own conclusion is that if you're making money off it then it's cultural appropriation. If you're making dinner, then you're just making dinner.

If you go on and on all the time about learning Japanese, and you see the whole Japanese culture as "cute" and very "other"? Sounds a bit fetishy to me. If you're hoping to work in/travel to Japan at some point, then it's just a skill.

It's worth pointing out that cultural appropriation is not a crime! There's loads of tone deaf stuff that white people do all the time that's really cringe. And it's infuriating when people make easy money off stuff that's not theirs to profit from. But there comes a point when you have to examine your own motivations, and decide for yourself whether you are happy with your actions.

I think this sounds sensible.

@bellac11
Because it came from the Middle East.. it spread over to India, Australia and properly lots of other places and then came fashionable in the uk in the 80's.
But, belly piercings came from Egypt, tongue piercings from Africa.. you get the jist.
So basically In that theory white English people can only have.. maybe an eyebrow piercing?

[quote nauticant]Does this also happen in Japan bellac11?

sometimes-interesting.com/thames-town-english-town-in-china/[/quote]
Wow thats brilliant, yes theres a few in Japan

It looks nicer than Britain!!!

[quote mamabr]@bellac11
Because it came from the Middle East.. it spread over to India, Australia and properly lots of other places and then came fashionable in the uk in the 80's.
But, belly piercings came from Egypt, tongue piercings from Africa.. you get the jist.
So basically In that theory white English people can only have.. maybe an eyebrow piercing? [/quote]
I think you'll find people have been making marks and holes in their bodies for thousands of years all over the world.

@AlisonDonut

If we are not allowed food or clothing from other cultures, we will all be wearing hemp clothes and eating parsnips and nettles.

What's not to like? Sign me up now.

^ That.

CA feels to me like a useless concept unless it's used only very very sparingly for symbols/customs that are especially sacred. That also means you can't go "zero tolerance" on it, not least because there are definitely border line cases (wherever the boundaries are drawn).

Not sure I can support "zero tolerance" in any realm, actually.

I can think now of something that I would say was appropriated for gain (and murder) which is the swastika by the Nazis.

That really has caused problems for Hindus since (and anyone using it to symbolise peace)

I cant think of many others though.

If you go on and on all the time about learning Japanese, and you see the whole Japanese culture as "cute" and very "other"? Sounds a bit fetishy to me. If you're hoping to work in/travel to Japan at some point, then it's just a skill.

Plenty of Japanese people do exactly the same thing with regard to British culture. I have Japanese friends who are always posting pictures or stories about British things and places that they find cute and twee.

Good about OP it’s been a while since we’ve had a flash cultural appropriation thread to get all the racists throthing.

I'm not white and if anyone wants to try cooking dishes from my parents' cultures, I think that's great. But then I'm not one of those idiots who tries to leverage power by bullying people over their lack of purity. In my experience the kind of people who do that are generally white and middle class, anyway, and (ironically) think nothing of speaking on behalf of, and misrepresenting, the very people they claim to be allies of.

One key aspect of cultural appropriation is a dominant oppressor culture taking things from a subjugated oppressed culture. When seen in those terms you can see the point. But it's become indiscriminate so that there's no test for how significant the appropriation is, the meanings of oppressor/oppressed have been twisted out of shape, and much that goes on is an oppressor/oppressed dynamic in the form of bullying.

I agree it’s gone too far so sad it’s being used to bully people

Except it hasn’t gone too far because apart from some bored teenagers having a chat on SM, nobody is suggesting you can’t cook or eat food from another culture.

Except it hasn’t gone too far because apart from some bored teenagers having a chat on SM, nobody is suggesting you can’t cook or eat food from another culture.

It’s a lot of young people though who are the next generation of adults. And they’re literally on tiktok soaking it up thanking others for ‘educating’ them. It’s really worrying.

Order a Chinese for dinner and send DD to get herself some nettles for nettle soup.

@bellac11

I never said I had a problem with them selling it or even changing it. And I certainly never said food flavours belong to anyone. I was pointing out the lack of respect, why say you love something but then make out you do it fresher, better etc. I guess ultimately what I am saying is just be kind and respectful.

@TurningUpMyStereotype

Except it hasn’t gone too far because apart from some bored teenagers having a chat on SM, nobody is suggesting you can’t cook or eat food from another culture.

It’s a lot of young people though who are the next generation of adults. And they’re literally on tiktok soaking it up thanking others for ‘educating’ them. It’s really worrying.

Its not just young people though, I hear it from adults (online, never in real life)

Look at the examples on here, nose piercings!!!!

I find it really sinister, almost as if each 'culture' (and thats a can of worms anyway) has to be kept pure and distinct from any other.

Of course there will be mixing and matching of habits/traditions/music/fashions/foods between cultures even if one is the dominant culture/elite and one isnt, or a mixture between all within a society or country.

@TurningUpMyStereotype

Except it hasn’t gone too far because apart from some bored teenagers having a chat on SM, nobody is suggesting you can’t cook or eat food from another culture.

It’s a lot of young people though who are the next generation of adults. And they’re literally on tiktok soaking it up thanking others for ‘educating’ them. It’s really worrying.

Oh come on, surely your views have changed since you were a teenager? I’m not terribly concerned that they’ll still be avoiding Chinese takeaways when they’re 30

It’s a lot of young people though who are the next generation of adults. And they’re literally on tiktok soaking it up thanking others for ‘educating’ them. It’s really worrying.

If what young people got themselves worked up about was a real problem for the next generation of adults, we’d be living in a very different world by now. Most grow up and become more balanced and circumspect in their views.

My own conclusion is that if you're making money off it then it's cultural appropriation.

So a British person couldn't open a branch of Domino's pizzas?

@TurningUpMyStereotype

Except it hasn’t gone too far because apart from some bored teenagers having a chat on SM, nobody is suggesting you can’t cook or eat food from another culture.

It’s a lot of young people though who are the next generation of adults. And they’re literally on tiktok soaking it up thanking others for ‘educating’ them. It’s really worrying.

I agree. All children should have to study logic and critical thinking. I wonder if there's a way we can campaign for it to be part of the national curriculum? It would be more useful to them than algebra! It would certainly be for the benefit of society. OP, I'd buy some logic/ critical thinking books for your daughter and require she does a page daily.

[quote whysotriggered]@bellac11

I never said I had a problem with them selling it or even changing it. And I certainly never said food flavours belong to anyone. I was pointing out the lack of respect, why say you love something but then make out you do it fresher, better etc. I guess ultimately what I am saying is just be kind and respectful.[/quote]
The terms kind and respectful are pretty meaningless

You can love and enjoy a particular thing, but want to change it, how do you think dishes evolve over years.

Mince pies, used to be made with mince meat in them. Improved by removing the meat but still called mince pies?? How bizarre, if you love the mince why remove it, and why remove it and still call the pies mince pies? (and a thousand other examples)

@Nightlystroll

My own conclusion is that if you're making money off it then it's cultural appropriation.

So a British person couldn't open a branch of Domino's pizzas?

A whole can of worms with that one

So pizzas have a lot in common with lots of middle eastern flat breads with topping type dishes

But they also use tomatoes, not traditionally Italian

So what about Italians who open pizza and pasta places, culturally appropriated

But wait, deep pan pizza pies, notoriously NOT Italian and created in the USA early last century but created by Italian ex pats??? And sold by Italian Americans and then imported to other countries too!!!

Its giving me a headache!!

Children left alone on tiktok is dangerous and this is proof! Tiktok is raising teenagers to be idiots. Cooking food from abroad and other cultures is Cooking!

I thought that it was only really cultural appropriation if people from that specific minority culture ask you to stop doing it - like the frivolous wearing of Native American war bonnets at festivals by non-Native people.

Another example would be acquiring Inuit women's facial tattoos without knowing the history (and indeed the attempt to expunge them) if you are not Inuit yourself.

Its more about taking aspects of a culture -particular a minority or native culture that has been under attack without considering cultural sensitivities when asked not to.

Trying to be positive, OP, perhaps an opportunity to discuss with your daughter, point out the flaws in the (virtue signlling, bullying) friend, help their critical thinking, help her understand the specific issues around CA and to recognise that she will need to navigate tricky waters to avoid taking a rational adult position that would possibly lead to conflict with your friends. There will be trickier issues in the future so good practice.

Good luck.