Cultural Appropriation being taken too far

[KitBumbleB]

DD is early secondary age and is exploring her hobbies and interests like other kids her age. One of her friends has discovered that she loves cooking and especially likes making Chinese food.
Last night DD was furiously typing on her phone and when I asked what was up she said one of her friends was having a go at the other for "cultural appropriation" because apparently cooking food of another culture or country is wrong.
The girl who likes cooking was incredibly upset and terrified of anyone else finding out as apparently this is the worst crime a tween can commit.

DD also tells me that according to TikTok, learning a language is also appropriation, especially Japanese as it is seen as fetishism

I know this is not AIBU, but am I the only one who thinks this is nonsense and is turning harmful, its like a mindless pile up.

DD and I are not white btw

My own conclusion is that if you're making money off it then it's cultural appropriation. If you're making dinner, then you're just making dinner.
Yes, I agree with this.
If you're just cooking food for yourself, that's fine.
Making a profit out of another culture, not fine.

If you go on and on all the time about learning Japanese, and you see the whole Japanese culture as "cute" and very "other"?
Also this
Yes to learning about other cultures and countries, no to kind of othering or fetisising them.

Making a profit out of another culture, not fine

So a British person who trained in French restaurants couldn’t open a restaurant serving French food?

Does that mean no one should go to a Chinese restaurant either? Can they eat the food but not make it? These new ideas are all a bit confusing

It's not confusing at all.
Nothing wrong with eating Chinese food in a restaurant, presumably run by people who are Chinese.
Would seem wrong/off for me to start cooking and selling Chinese food being a white British person.
That's where it differs.
Obviously cooking food at home for yourself is not the same, that's more just appreciating food rather than appropriating.

@GoodJanetBadJanet

Does that mean no one should go to a Chinese restaurant either? Can they eat the food but not make it? These new ideas are all a bit confusing

It's not confusing at all.
Nothing wrong with eating Chinese food in a restaurant, presumably run by people who are Chinese.
Would seem wrong/off for me to start cooking and selling Chinese food being a white British person.
That's where it differs.
Obviously cooking food at home for yourself is not the same, that's more just appreciating food rather than appropriating.

So if I (white British) wanted to open a restaurant, what food would I be able to serve?

If my neighbour (British born, but family heritage Ghanaian) wanted to open a restaurant, what food would she be allowed to serve?

Can she run a fried chicken franchise? Can I?

@GoodJanetBadJanet

Does that mean no one should go to a Chinese restaurant either? Can they eat the food but not make it? These new ideas are all a bit confusing

It's not confusing at all.
Nothing wrong with eating Chinese food in a restaurant, presumably run by people who are Chinese.
Would seem wrong/off for me to start cooking and selling Chinese food being a white British person.
That's where it differs.
Obviously cooking food at home for yourself is not the same, that's more just appreciating food rather than appropriating.

Chefs often train in countries other than their own. A white person can become a sushi chef after training in Japan or under another professional sushi chef.

If my neighbour (British born, but family heritage Ghanaian) wanted to open a restaurant, what food would she be allowed to serve?
Both (can't be arsed to get into an argument over why, I mean come on if people really don't get the whole history and oppressor role of white Brits or choose to ignore, fine, whatever)

So if I (white British) wanted to open a restaurant, what food would I be able to serve?
Why would you make and sell say Chinese or Ghanaian food etc if you weren't?
It would hardly be authentic, would it.
More like a Westernised take on it.

@Greatoutdoors

Wouldn’t it be good if we could just switch the internet off for a month, and let all the kids reset?

Kids, and a not inconsiderable amount of loons on this thread…

Goodness, aren’t purity spirals confusing for those caught up in them? Does anyone know which country first invented bog roll and if we’re allowed to use it or if we have to revert to using a handful of grass? Feeling quite worried now 😟

Does anyone know which country first invented bog roll and if we’re allowed to use it or if we have to revert to using a handful of grass? Feeling quite worried now

@GoodJanetBadJanet

If my neighbour (British born, but family heritage Ghanaian) wanted to open a restaurant, what food would she be allowed to serve? Both (can't be arsed to get into an argument over why, I mean come on if people really don't get the whole history and oppressor role of white Brits or choose to ignore, fine, whatever)

So if I (white British) wanted to open a restaurant, what food would I be able to serve?
Why would you make and sell say Chinese or Ghanaian food etc if you weren't?
It would hardly be authentic, would it.
More like a Westernised take on it.

Its a massive assumption that it would be inauthentic and a westernised take

Near me, there is a Thai restaurant run by a white British man who lived for a long time in Thailand, the food is amazing

There is also the best tapas Ive had in a tapas bar run by a white British man locally, the place is heaving and he also lived in Spain and brought a lot of what he learned back, there are things on that menu that are from very localised areas in Spain which most tourists wont have experienced (I have because I dont tend to go to touristy places)

They are both thriving businesses, good for them.

My blood boils every time I see someone eating a bagel. ESPECIALLY if it has bacon in it. Isn’t it enough that you people tried to murder us all for centuries without eating our foodstuffs as well?!

Not really. The more the merrier!

Goodjanetbadjanet
So do you think it’s pointless for chefs to train in other countries since were they to come home and open a restaurant they shouldn’t cook any of the food they learned during their training abroad?

The problem with tiktok is that your dd and her friends are not looking at the whole picture. For every tiktok video saying 'cooking Chinese food is cultural appropriation' I would bet money there will be many more from Chinese people telling people its not. There will also be loads of comments explaining why it's not. There will be stitches and duets, that would also come up on their timeliness regarding this.

Your dd and/or her friends are choosing to only look at one side of it. And using to berate other people.

CA isnr quite as simple as 'are you making money from it'. You can travel to another country and learn to cook their food and then make money from it and it not be CA. If you actually learned about their culture and appreciated it. If you were then to open a restaurant in the UK, because you have the money to do so, to share that cuisine and employed people from that ethnicity it would be CA. It would be facilitating sharing of culture.

CA is extremely nuanced and you would have to know peoples background,full life story, their set up, their personal views on why they were doing it, the ins and outs of the business etc.

@GCAcademic

Sadly there is a certain kind of young person who is censorious and puritanical and likes nothing more than calling other people out. Or, as we used to say pre-social media, bullying them.

because apparently cooking food of another culture or country is wrong.
Hopefully Brexit and inflation will deliver us the progressive future that these young activists aspire to for us, and we’ll all be virtuously eating potatoes and turnips for every meal.

Don't know about turnips but I think potatoes are native to America, I think Walter Raleigh was supposed to have brought them back.

Having said that they can forget banning potatoes, know as Food of the Gods in this house. I'll give up alot of things before my spuds.

We won't be able to have turkey at Christmas either. I wonder what other delights will be missed?

We have something called the ‘hunger gap’ over winter in the UK. It’s a time when our climate doesn’t allow us to grow much apart from a few root vegetables. I hope all the holier than thou, purity people are resigned to this and have robust digestions, because the diet might prove rather windy 🙄

@GoodJanetBadJanet
If you go on and on all the time about learning Japanese, and you see the whole Japanese culture as "cute" and very "other"?
Also this
Yes to learning about other cultures and countries, no to kind of othering or fetisising them.

I do not really agree with your view here.

Part of the excitement and interest of another country and their culture is precisely that they are ‘other’. And think how we build up an idea about the French for example and might have fun trying to copy them ( many Mumsnet threads have been fun for this) - being ‘chic’, finding the right red lipstick, looking cool etc. And lots of people start learning a language because they have ‘fallen in love’ with a country - fetishised it on a way. Isn’t that cross pollination?

@Minutewaltz

Goodjanetbadjanet So do you think it’s pointless for chefs to train in other countries since were they to come home and open a restaurant they shouldn’t cook any of the food they learned during their training abroad?

Or god forbid mix it up with other inventions or foods from other countries.

Outrage

Cultural appropriation is taking something from another culture that has a deep cultural or religious significance, and having no regard for that significance. Dream catchers for instance.

Cultural appropriation is taking something from another culture that has a deep cultural or religious significance, and having no regard for that significance. Dream catchers for instance

Yes, completely agree with this too 🙂

@Notbeinfunnehbut

I agree it’s gone too far so sad it’s being used to bully people

Totally agree.

There are real problems in the world. This is far from one of them.

And to think we've been struggling with the idea of calling a man with a dress on a woman

We should just say it's sexual appropriation and they should stop it.

Ridiculous, good on her friend for cooking Chinese food, I’m Chinese and the stuff in take always hardly resembles stuff I cook at home. Plenty of if it is decent but just different.

There is fetishisation of Asian culture but that’s a sexual thing known as yellow fever and there has been serious academic research done in this area.

FFS…..

@mumda

And to think we've been struggling with the idea of calling a man with a dress on a woman

We should just say it's sexual appropriation and they should stop it.

I'm 100% stealing this for the next time a teenager tells me a man can actually be a woman (or indeed a cat, apparently). Like, seriously, I think this might just make them pause for one second.