Cultural Appropriation being taken too far

[KitBumbleB]

DD is early secondary age and is exploring her hobbies and interests like other kids her age. One of her friends has discovered that she loves cooking and especially likes making Chinese food.
Last night DD was furiously typing on her phone and when I asked what was up she said one of her friends was having a go at the other for "cultural appropriation" because apparently cooking food of another culture or country is wrong.
The girl who likes cooking was incredibly upset and terrified of anyone else finding out as apparently this is the worst crime a tween can commit.

DD also tells me that according to TikTok, learning a language is also appropriation, especially Japanese as it is seen as fetishism

I know this is not AIBU, but am I the only one who thinks this is nonsense and is turning harmful, its like a mindless pile up.

DD and I are not white btw

The fried fish bit of fish and chips is from Jewish food traditions but of course most fish and chip shops now in the UK are chinese or greek run.

Hmmm, taking credit for peruvian and jewish food stuffs.

I also dont agree that if someone or a group use an items or tradition that means something to another group, thats a 'problem'. If the original group (which usually were not the originators of the tradition because all things come from somewhere else ultimately) still revere the tradition or item, it doesnt change the meaning for them.

That someone else might use it for a different or even the same meaning is irrelevant.

The Chinese part of my family would be blimmin' delighted that a Western teenager wanted to cook Chinese food, particularly dishes from their region. And my local Chinese owned grocery would be only too happy to sell her the ingredients and let her crack on!

I was going to comment about us both being knowledgeable Belkell but if I recall correctly that is a colonial way of thinking so I better not.

How can learning another language be cultural appropriation? For those that suggest it is, what would they have us do? Stop communicating with those from another countries?

Or as a pp said, it's ok as long as you're not profiting from it. So schools should stop paying language teachers?

What should we do with all the words in our own language that are appropriated from other languages?

Everyone should be free to cook whatever food they like in their own homes - and borrow from other recipes and adapt flavours to their own tastes. Even opening restaurants that are "fusion" restaurants - I struggle to see the issue unless you have someone from another culture claiming that theirs is the best or the most genuine cuisine. Should Italian restaurants stop serving pasta and tomato dishes?

This isn't really about appropriation, it's kids bullying kids and it's toxic.

I’d be steering my kids away from any friends who think like this. Tiktok is full of woke rubbish, people tripping over themselves to be the most ok with the most random shit, using no common sense or reality.

If I knew you then I'd send my older teens to come run and laugh at 13yo taking their cues from TikTok.

It is not cultural appropriation for a white English person to learn how to cook Chinese food any more than it is for a Chinese person learning how to cook French patisserie.

Does she have any Chinese friends who can at this bizarre logic that some white girls on social media seem to be desperate to adhere to? (Somehow everybody else seems to understand that cooking Chinese food is not the equivalent of racist bullying )

Does that mean no one should go to a Chinese restaurant either? Can they eat the food but not make it? These new ideas are all a bit confusing. Also, why do you need to specify that you aren’t white? Should it make a difference to responses?

@GCAcademic

Sadly there is a certain kind of young person who is censorious and puritanical and likes nothing more than calling other people out. Or, as we used to say pre-social media, bullying them.

because apparently cooking food of another culture or country is wrong.
Hopefully Brexit and inflation will deliver us the progressive future that these young activists aspire to for us, and we’ll all be virtuously eating potatoes and turnips for every meal.

The purity spiral will get them all, expect chief bully.

The school system has become completely toxic and dangerous.

British things, british things, I thought that there were many...

If we are not allowed food or clothing from other cultures, we will all be wearing hemp clothes and eating parsnips and nettles.

What's not to like? Sign me up now.

@WalkerWalking

My own conclusion is that if you're making money off it then it's cultural appropriation. If you're making dinner, then you're just making dinner.

If you go on and on all the time about learning Japanese, and you see the whole Japanese culture as "cute" and very "other"? Sounds a bit fetishy to me. If you're hoping to work in/travel to Japan at some point, then it's just a skill.

It's worth pointing out that cultural appropriation is not a crime! There's loads of tone deaf stuff that white people do all the time that's really cringe. And it's infuriating when people make easy money off stuff that's not theirs to profit from. But there comes a point when you have to examine your own motivations, and decide for yourself whether you are happy with your actions.

Pseudointellectual nonsense.

I disagree- cultural appropriation can be a real problem, when a dominant culture takes something meaningful from a culture they’ve oppressed, ignores the meaning behind it and uses it for their own ends. See for example white Americans wearing Native American headdresses to festivals.

100% this! You see it in some chain restaurants that make 'Asian' food, their PR says things like we travelled to Asia and loved the food but wanted to make it fresher, cleaner and healthier. Backhanded compliment much??? I won't name it but one of these chains when asked to make a statement to support Asian communities during a 'stop asian hate' campaign, declined and said but we do support a lot of other charities. So happy to profit from their culture but have no actual appreciation or respect for it or the people!!!

Your DD's friend is appreciating the food not appropriating it. They are young and will eventually see the greys and subtleties of the argument but until then there will be a lot of forehead slapping! lol.

I forgot to say I have told DD that TikTok is not real life but unfortunately for a lot of tweens, it is.
She also knows that someones opinion is only that and isn't law, but whoever said it's toxic is completely right. Its nothing but modern day bullying and its disgusting.

A lot od DDs friends are terrified to put a foot wrong and are all identify as this and that label to fit in.

Our culture is a popular Halloween costume and DD pointed out that whilst its a bit hmmm...it doesn't exactly keep her up at night.

I wonder what people think about K Pop? I would ask DD but she would probably explode

How can learning another language be cultural appropriation?

This was mentioned in relation to Japanese and there's some validity there where for some the interest isn't in relation to the language itself but in relation to obsessions around Manga, Anime, and other things I better not write in case people are tempted to google. There can be a fetishistic aspect for such an origin of the interest. For example, see this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanophilia#21st_century

Good about OP it’s been a while since we’ve had a flash cultural appropriation thread to get all the racists throthing.

Nice little start to the Easter holidays

I agree that some things can be appropriation. But I definitely think it's gotten way out of hand.. on another app there was a woman laying into a white woman because she wanted a nose piercing.

@whysotriggered

I disagree- cultural appropriation can be a real problem, when a dominant culture takes something meaningful from a culture they’ve oppressed, ignores the meaning behind it and uses it for their own ends. See for example white Americans wearing Native American headdresses to festivals.

100% this! You see it in some chain restaurants that make 'Asian' food, their PR says things like we travelled to Asia and loved the food but wanted to make it fresher, cleaner and healthier. Backhanded compliment much??? I won't name it but one of these chains when asked to make a statement to support Asian communities during a 'stop asian hate' campaign, declined and said but we do support a lot of other charities. So happy to profit from their culture but have no actual appreciation or respect for it or the people!!!

Your DD's friend is appreciating the food not appropriating it. They are young and will eventually see the greys and subtleties of the argument but until then there will be a lot of forehead slapping! lol.

What company is this?

And so what if they are wanting to change aspects of a food type that they like and sell it, you dont have to go there.

Food flavours and ingredients do not 'belong' to anyone.

@Staffy1

Does that mean no one should go to a Chinese restaurant either? Can they eat the food but not make it? These new ideas are all a bit confusing. Also, why do you need to specify that you aren’t white? Should it make a difference to responses?

I specified we aren't white because I was expecting some responses asking if I was or assuming I was

Also our culture or country history and historical figures are popular costumes so I have a small idea of what its like to be romanticised (I wouldn't say appropriated)

Flash was meant to be goady...not sure how that one happened

@mamabr

I agree that some things can be appropriation. But I definitely think it's gotten way out of hand.. on another app there was a woman laying into a white woman because she wanted a nose piercing.

Crikey, I had my nose pierced 35 years ago, why is this a problem?

Well I cooked Chinese food last night, Malaysian the night before, Eastern European day before that (I've had it in several countries, not sure of origins), Japanese style day before, French and roast beef last Sunday. Cultural appreciation!

Learning languages for non-practical reasons is not a bad thing. It is not rude to learn Italian because you like how it sounds or Japanese because you like how their writing looks. Learning a language is good for the brain as well as improving your understanding of the world outside your experience.

Does your dd realise how much our lives are improved by other cultures? Even when you just consider food, would she really give up chocolate, pizza, spices, oranges? Does she really think people at Chinese restaurants are judging their customers if they aren't Chinese? I feel really bad for her friend

This is just tweens / young teens muddling concepts up though. No one would say that learning a language or cooking another cultures food is intrinsically appropriation.

So I think explain to her that these things are complex, and she and her friends are understandably getting muddled. Teach her ways to state her position clearly, without getting into debates she doesn’t want.

I agree with you that a lot of things are out of hand, but you are conflating two things here.

Interesting about the Japanese though because one of their obsessions is 'English' (whatever that means) architecture and they have whole theme parks and housing built to look like mini mock tudor estates.