Huge problem with MIL. Involves child genitalia - sensitive topic

[Squiff70]

I decided not to NC for this so that MN mods can see if necessary that I'm a long-term poster and not a troll. I will try to be as sensitive as possible about such an emotive and delicate topic.

For reference, I have a 2 year old daughter. We lost her twin brother shortly after birth due to prematurity.

I'm currently 20 weeks pregnant with a little boy.

When we were expecting our twins - a boy and girl - just over two years ago, my MIL stuck her foot in in every way possible. She insisted I breastfeed both babies for at least six months. I told her (whilst pregnant) that I would TRY to BF and hoped that it would work out but laughed her hurtful and unnecessary comments off that I would "try BF until it sent me crazy". Our twins were born extremely prematurely and despite trying like crazy for five weeks, my milk never came in (I was also very ill with sepsis and our son passed away during this time too). I was and still am devastated that I wasn't able to provide my babies with breast milk.

Putting that aside, during that same pregnancy, MIL told us time and time again that we would have to "manipulate our son's genitals" every day so that he wouldn't grow up with a tight foreskin. She claims to have done this with her two sons (my DP and his brother) and said "it worked for them". I told DP that there was absolutely no way on this Earth that I would be doing this to our child and neither would he. He said HE would do it because his mum's word, apparently, is gospel. I told him I felt this was CSA (or borderline) and totally unnecessary unless advised by a paediatrician for medical reasons. He told me I was over-reacting but I remained firm that it was absolutely not going to happen.

Since our son passed away it hasn't been mentioned. As I said, I'm 20 weeks pregnant and we've recently found out it's a little boy. DP hasn't yet told his mum we're expecting another baby (it's a cultural thing - they are not British) but I am TERRIFIED that when he does tell her, and she finds out we're having another boy, that these demands (masked as motherly advice) will fire back up again.

Thankfully his mum lives in her native country, elsewhere but within Europe. She is planning to visit in June. She's only met our daughter a couple of times and I wouldn't leave her unattended with our baby.

When our son is born, DP wants his mum to come over to help us. I have significant health problems and my partner works BUT there's absolutely no way I would trust her alone with either of my children and if I am/DP is changing either of their nappies, I don't want her in the same room.

How the hell do I handle this? I feel way out of my depth. I can't talk to her myself as she doesn't speak any English and I don't speak any of her native language either. Even if that were possible, it would be an incredibly awkward conversation.

Lastly, my DP is a wonderful dad. I've never ever had reason to mistrust him with our daughter. We bath her together and he's changed hundreds of nappies when I both have and haven't been present. I trust him with my life and my daughter's life and there's no reason to think he would ever dream of harming her in any way. It's just his mum I am worried about and how what she says to DP can influence some of his parenting decisions.

Please help!

It's definitely a thing as a doctor (in the UK) told me I should've done it when D's was tiny and then he wouldn't have needed to be circumcised.

I have no idea how to deal with your MIL apart from not letting her nappy change. The real person you need to convince is your dh though.

We were told to do this for a short time (as in 10days to a couple of weeks I think) as DS' foreskin did get tight. Certainly not daily for years. WTF.

You're going to need to limit the time your MIL is over, ideally not have her staying in your house and be on top of this. I don't believe that your DH will prioritise your feelings over his mother's "ways" when she's there. He should and your need to talk to him, but I don't think you can trust him in this, because she's obviously conditioned him.

For different reasons I wouldn't leave my "D"M alone with my kids. It's really hard and awkward, but unfortunately, that was worth the alternative risk. I think this is going to be how you manage it in practice, because you literally have no other way of knowing. She won't be able to bathe him alone/with DH either.

I'm sorry about the loss of your eldest son and that you had such a traumatic time with the birth. The fact you tried BF so long is quite impressive.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor thank you for your reply. I absolutely understand what you are saying, however the advice you were given regarding your son was strictly medical. I appreciate that and see how such things could prevent the need for surgery at a later date.

I just can't help thinking my MIL's intentions aren't just from a medical perspective. Every time she spoke to DP on the phone during my twin pregnancy, she talked about it with him and after the call he would relay the conversation to me. I'm not saying her intent is entirely malicious but it just doesn't sit right with me at all. Of all the motherly advice she could give us, this was the one and she drilled it into DP's head over and over again. I don't understand her apparent obsession over our unborn child's nappy area!

It does sound like what she is recommending does have the basis in medicine as PPs said above. I think you’re overreacting calling it CSA to be honest, and being a bit unfair to her. It’s unlikely she’ll be a risk to either of your children from a CSA perspective? I think you’re causing yourself unnecessary stress worrying about this.

I’m really sorry about your son.

Oh goodness OP, you have so much in your plate.

I would refuse your MIL coming to help. Your DH can take paternity leave and hopefully tack on some holiday. Has your Dd been in nursery at all? Are your own family available?

It just won’t be restful to be stuck at home with a MIL with whom you share no language and who wants to direct your parenting, whether breastfeeding or foreskin care.

Tell your DH she can come for a visit when he is there to host her

If you need more help, could you afford an au pair for a few months? (I wouldn’t have been able to, but you never know).

Some nationalities are much more upfront about stuff… we were told that my Ds’s tight foreskin would improve once he started fiddling with it himself. Boys don’t generally need much instruction or encouragement.

You need to be calm and stress free after your illness and terrible loss last time so I hope your DH supports you.

Congratulations on your pg, and good luck.

[quote Squiff70]@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor thank you for your reply. I absolutely understand what you are saying, however the advice you were given regarding your son was strictly medical. I appreciate that and see how such things could prevent the need for surgery at a later date.

I just can't help thinking my MIL's intentions aren't just from a medical perspective. Every time she spoke to DP on the phone during my twin pregnancy, she talked about it with him and after the call he would relay the conversation to me. I'm not saying her intent is entirely malicious but it just doesn't sit right with me at all. Of all the motherly advice she could give us, this was the one and she drilled it into DP's head over and over again. I don't understand her apparent obsession over our unborn child's nappy area![/quote]
I don't think it was good medical advice to be honest!

Also an old lady might repeat herself a lot for lots of reasons. Obviously always follow your instincts but I don’t think you have much proof that she’s an abuser or obsessed to be honest. And you’d risk a really horrible conversation by telling your DP that you think his mum is a sexual abuser?

If I were you I would preempt this by talking to your GP about the ACTUAL current advice on this issue. Then you can tell your DH that “yes him mum is right on principe but the new recommendations of modern medicine only advise to do this for X amount or time or in X scenarios”.

That way she doesn’t lose face, your husband doesn’t have to think he was sexually abused by his mum when he wasn’t, and you follow medical guidelines for your child.

I don't have a son but I have heard it is something that needs to be done to enable cleaning of the foreskin to prevent infections. If the foreskin is too tight it can crack/bleed etc.

Push back on MIL visit for a few months, you've experienced a lot of trauma - they should both understand that. Plan to talk to a Dr with your husband about the advice you've been given and whether or not it's needed, how long etc. once your son is born. Telling your DH no outright and not taking on board his opinion is likely to get his back up and make him side with MIL more.

Wtf?
I have 8 ds's.
Never ever manhandled their genitals!!
None have had any foreskin issues.!.
You dh needs a chat with a mw or hv.

I'm a mother of sons, adults now I've never heard of this practice. (UK)

@Allsorts1

It does sound like what she is recommending does have the basis in medicine as PPs said above. I think you’re overreacting calling it CSA to be honest, and being a bit unfair to her. It’s unlikely she’ll be a risk to either of your children from a CSA perspective? I think you’re causing yourself unnecessary stress worrying about this.

I’m really sorry about your son.

I agree with this. I don’t think there is anything malicious at all. If nothing else, it sounds like a cultural difference.

I wouldn’t have her come and stay with you, but when you are feeling a bit calmer and baby boy is here and thriving, perhaps you can think about building a relationship with your MIL, who does sound like she cares to be fair.

Does phimosis run in the family? We were told to leave our sons alone by paed and let nature take its course. I was worried as it never pulled back .....You can do serious damage by causing scar tissue which will make the problem worse .
If you read up on it, the foreskin isn't supposed to pull back until the child is around ten . If you are
Concerned when he is born , and if he has an obvious phimosis , ask for a paed referral , make your husband go to the appointment with you and the dr will advise . She or he sure won't be telling you to do this long term.

No UK Dr would tell you to do this. Is she is fucking witch doctor? No way would she be near my dc.
Your dh needs to educate himself or pack his stuff and run back to mummy.

I would speak to a midwife or Dr when he is born. I remember they do check foreskin at birth. It sounds like this is potentially "a thing" but only when necessary. Hopefully actual medical advice will be don't do it and you DH will support you.

@Allsorts1

Also an old lady might repeat herself a lot for lots of reasons. Obviously always follow your instincts but I don’t think you have much proof that she’s an abuser or obsessed to be honest. And you’d risk a really horrible conversation by telling your DP that you think his mum is a sexual abuser?

If I were you I would preempt this by talking to your GP about the ACTUAL current advice on this issue. Then you can tell your DH that “yes him mum is right on principe but the new recommendations of modern medicine only advise to do this for X amount or time or in X scenarios”.

That way she doesn’t lose face, your husband doesn’t have to think he was sexually abused by his mum when he wasn’t, and you follow medical guidelines for your child.

This is probably your best course of action.

You'll have actual medical advice - if she's anything like my mum who takes a doctors advice as gospel then you may be able to fully resolve this issue.

Anyway even if - and it's a big if - she still thinks it should be done then if she did it for her sons it stands to reason that it would be your job to do it to yours, so she shouldn't be trying to do it anyway given it's presumably a "mums' role.

Thank you for your honest replies. I'm was prepared to be told that I'm the one in the wrong or overreacting and that his mum has a point. I'm not denying that for some babies or very young children there may be a medical need for this, especially if it prevents the child from potentially needing painful surgery which could otherwise have been avoided.

I will absolutely be speaking to my midwife about this at my next appointment.

I haven't accused MIL of CSA directly. I just don't trust her in that respect - NOT because of the advice but with the obsession over it. If she'd mentioned it once or twice then fine, I would have looked into it from a medical perspective but she went on and on and on about it during every phone call and I'm afraid I snapped, telling DP it was (IMO) a form of CSA.

I understand also there may be a cultural element here but unless it's advised by a medical professional, it's not something I will even consider doing with my child. IF for medical reasons we're advised to do this in order to help our son, then I'll ask for guidance on the most appropriate and gentle way.

I obviously understand that the area (for girls as much as boys) needs to be kept as clean and dry as possible to prevent discomfort and infection - it's part of being a parent to care for child's nappy area just as we care for the rest of them!

Like I said, I'm happy to be told I'm wrong or overreacting (I'm glad some of you have done tbh!). I'm just not comfortable with MIL discussing our child's private areas so frequently or with such firm advice.

@Pixiedust1234

I don't have a son but I have heard it is something that needs to be done to enable cleaning of the foreskin to prevent infections. If the foreskin is too tight it can crack/bleed etc.

Have you heard this from a properly qualified medical professional?

I have heard of this advice before, particularly amongst my parents' generation so I don't think it's unprecedented. Her obsession with talking about it is weird though.

I'm so sorry you lost your first son.

Why is DH so obsessed with what his mum says? Your these kids’ mum, it’s your word that’s important here, not a woman who lives in a different country.

Absolutely refuse to have her come and help. She’s not going to be any real ‘help’ to you anyway, because she doesn’t respect you or listen to you, so how can she help you?

I have a son and I have not pulled his foreskin back.

No doctor or midwife told me too either.

I have heard about it online from random individuals but never from a medical person

Leave the penis alone. It doesn’t need retracting

I have a son and have never heard of this before, cleaning during a nappy change you would notice any problems surely? Unless there is a medical condition you shouldn’t be manipulating kids genitals.

Sounds like you need your DH to align with you, more than anything. Speaking to medical professional makes sense, so why not ensure he is at the appointment where you bring up the subject, so that you can both hear the advice from an expert at the same time? That might help to bring you back on the same page.

I'm so sorry about the death of your son, OP

It used to be advised that a baby's foreskin should be retracted when bathing so you could clean underneath it. It's no longer recommended as forcibly retracting it before it is naturally ready to do so can cause tearing and scarring. It would seem that your MIL is hanging on to this antiquated practice (which may still be medically advised in her part of the world) in the same way that MILs the world over tend to do, presuming that nothing has changed from when their own babies were born.

Thinking of it in CSA terms seems like an enormous and illogical leap.

I would handle this the same way you would if she was trying to give sugar water to your baby or telling you to put him down to sleep on his front - "Thanks MIL, but that's not recommended anymore." This is your baby, you don't have to get her agreement. For your DH, showing him the current medical advice should be enough - if not then he is the problem, not your MIL.

It's an insane and old fashioned belief that you have to pull back the foreskin on little boys and you absolutely do not. Infant genitals aren't the same as older children and they grow and develop naturally. Infant girls don't have an opening to their vagina for example - this would be equivalent to saying you should stick your finger in and make one. I'm sorry that's disgusting but it's the same idea! Do not fiddle with your sons' penises unless told to by a relevant doctor.