Huge problem with MIL. Involves child genitalia - sensitive topic

[Squiff70]

I decided not to NC for this so that MN mods can see if necessary that I'm a long-term poster and not a troll. I will try to be as sensitive as possible about such an emotive and delicate topic.

For reference, I have a 2 year old daughter. We lost her twin brother shortly after birth due to prematurity.

I'm currently 20 weeks pregnant with a little boy.

When we were expecting our twins - a boy and girl - just over two years ago, my MIL stuck her foot in in every way possible. She insisted I breastfeed both babies for at least six months. I told her (whilst pregnant) that I would TRY to BF and hoped that it would work out but laughed her hurtful and unnecessary comments off that I would "try BF until it sent me crazy". Our twins were born extremely prematurely and despite trying like crazy for five weeks, my milk never came in (I was also very ill with sepsis and our son passed away during this time too). I was and still am devastated that I wasn't able to provide my babies with breast milk.

Putting that aside, during that same pregnancy, MIL told us time and time again that we would have to "manipulate our son's genitals" every day so that he wouldn't grow up with a tight foreskin. She claims to have done this with her two sons (my DP and his brother) and said "it worked for them". I told DP that there was absolutely no way on this Earth that I would be doing this to our child and neither would he. He said HE would do it because his mum's word, apparently, is gospel. I told him I felt this was CSA (or borderline) and totally unnecessary unless advised by a paediatrician for medical reasons. He told me I was over-reacting but I remained firm that it was absolutely not going to happen.

Since our son passed away it hasn't been mentioned. As I said, I'm 20 weeks pregnant and we've recently found out it's a little boy. DP hasn't yet told his mum we're expecting another baby (it's a cultural thing - they are not British) but I am TERRIFIED that when he does tell her, and she finds out we're having another boy, that these demands (masked as motherly advice) will fire back up again.

Thankfully his mum lives in her native country, elsewhere but within Europe. She is planning to visit in June. She's only met our daughter a couple of times and I wouldn't leave her unattended with our baby.

When our son is born, DP wants his mum to come over to help us. I have significant health problems and my partner works BUT there's absolutely no way I would trust her alone with either of my children and if I am/DP is changing either of their nappies, I don't want her in the same room.

How the hell do I handle this? I feel way out of my depth. I can't talk to her myself as she doesn't speak any English and I don't speak any of her native language either. Even if that were possible, it would be an incredibly awkward conversation.

Lastly, my DP is a wonderful dad. I've never ever had reason to mistrust him with our daughter. We bath her together and he's changed hundreds of nappies when I both have and haven't been present. I trust him with my life and my daughter's life and there's no reason to think he would ever dream of harming her in any way. It's just his mum I am worried about and how what she says to DP can influence some of his parenting decisions.

Please help!

@cutebutscary

Does phimosis run in the family? We were told to leave our sons alone by paed and let nature take its course. I was worried as it never pulled back .....You can do serious damage by causing scar tissue which will make the problem worse . If you read up on it, the foreskin isn't supposed to pull back until the child is around ten . If you are Concerned when he is born , and if he has an obvious phimosis , ask for a paed referral , make your husband go to the appointment with you and the dr will advise . She or he sure won't be telling you to do this long term.

I was given this same advice by gp at my dc health review. Foreskin was tight but let nature do it’s thing…he then added more honestly, that by about 10 my DS would soon start to “play” with his penis and then masturbate as got to puberty. He would do a better job himself at massaging it , and in a way to ensure it was not causing himself pain. He just added I may need to have an “awkward “ conversation with son around 14 to ask if still problem to sure he goes back to GP rather than hide it because of embarrassment of being a kid. Duly had awkward conversation at 14 (DS was late puberty), I just said if he had issues to just let me or his dad know and we’d book an appointment for him

I’d tell MIL and DH this…say it is NOT recommended any more on babies as can cause damage…And to do this is against medical advice

Othe cultures do have different baby care practices which i have come across when travelling and in a professional capacity in a very multicultural town, and I can quite see this being one of them. Particularly in cultures where the male is particularly revered.

However it does seem a strange thing for her to be obsessed about beyond all other things, and I do understand your concerns about her staying with you and taking over. I wouldn't want to leave her with him in case she did any damage carrying out this practise, even if it is totally innocent.

Firstly I'd like to offer my condolences on the death of your first son.

Next, what I would do is when the public health nurse comes to visit, following the birth of your new baby, ask them straight out, in the earshot of your DH what the current medical advice is in relation to this. If he walks out of the room before the visit, bring him back in under the guise of Daddy needs to be involved too.

I can understand why if someone kept mentioning a particular thing, over and over again and wouldn't stop talking about it, it would sit uneasy with you.

Best of luck with the upcoming birth!

It is a thing, but this is definitely a strange obsession, when baby not yet born!
Advice I have had is to do it a little bit in the bath, as part of general washing, if it seems a bit tight - but more when the child is 6 months old, not a newborn - and it's definitely a minor thing!!!
My MIL mentioned it, as apparently in her day the doctors basically 'forced' it back - my DH had to have it done when he was about 8 I think, and he remembers the pain. So my guess is that your MIL was sort of traumatised by what happened to her own sons, and is keen for that not to be repeated. And as she is elderly etc just goes overboard and keeps repeating herself.

I think you just let her visit, but, don't let her change the baby (you can do this quite naturally - she can cuddle him etc, but you are taking care of his every need and, get MIL to look after your oldest whilst you change him). And if she speaks about it just ignore her - and make sure DH is briefed by your midwife/doctor about it, so he knows what's what.

@Soubriquet

I have a son and I have not pulled his foreskin back.

No doctor or midwife told me too either.

I have heard about it online from random individuals but never from a medical person

Leave the penis alone. It doesn’t need retracting

This. The foreskin start siff attached to the glans, fiddling with it breaks that connection before it is ready/developed enough to do it naturally.

If it happens naturally all well and good, most boys manage to play with it enough to break the connection when it is ready to be broken. The foreskin does not require being pulled back to be cleaned.

Basically, if the penis isn't yours leave it alone!

Sound like those of with boys who’ve had issues (circumcision for medical reasons) etc have heard of it. Maybe one of her kids had issues/maybe it’s cultural/maybe she’s got it wrong. Just tell dh you’ll have a chat with health visitor or midwife when baby is born and make sure he is present. It’s not really a massive deal.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

It's an insane and old fashioned belief that you have to pull back the foreskin on little boys and you absolutely do not. Infant genitals aren't the same as older children and they grow and develop naturally. Infant girls don't have an opening to their vagina for example - this would be equivalent to saying you should stick your finger in and make one. I'm sorry that's disgusting but it's the same idea! Do not fiddle with your sons' penises unless told to by a relevant doctor.

What? Females don’t have opening? Many females have a Hymen…but that is not usually a complete closure ( only very small minority), and some don’t have a hymen more than a sort of elastic tissue “ring” around the opening….hence why virginity tests are useless, pointless and infringement on girls/womens Autonomy

I have an old friend in France who did this with her boys. Was horrified I didn't with mine. Absolutely convinced she was right. I told her we are born with everything the way it's supposed to be, no need to snip bits off , manipulate or any other intervention, unless there's a medical need obviously, like a tongue tie preventing an infant from feeding.

I was told by one of my doctors specifically NOT to do this. (Which was very strange as I didn’t bring it up, nor was I planning on doing it! I’d never heard of this so I was really confused. I think it must have been something she’d been asked about with other patients).

Will your partner listen if a doctor tells him about it directly?

I can't talk to her myself as she doesn't speak any English and I don't speak any of her native language either

I think this is the key here, tbh.

She keeps going on about it - but to whom? Your DH? How are these conversations playing out?

I'm willing to bet there's some family medical history and she means well. If you could talk directly then it might be easier. I'd suggest instead of freaking out you might do better to try to understand why she keeps harping on about it. Then, as PP suggest, you can counter with "thanks MiL, the current advice is..."
I don't see why you've lept to something sinister - I'd get why you're annoyed if she keeps going on, but I'm not sure it's much different to if MIL kept going on about "you must wean at 3 months" "you must give him water" or other such outdated advice.

I was told to do this by the maternity clinic nurses & obstetrician when my DS was born, I live in France. it seemed to be standard, although things may have changed since ! (he's 29 soon :o)

NHS advice is do not pull back the foreskin of a baby or young boy because it could be painful and cause harm: Phimosis.

Is her country one where most boys are circumcised? That can influence the advice.

You clean a baby's penis in the exact same way you'd clean their finger - wipe it over with a washcloth and some mild soap as and when needed, no other action needed. Would you retract the skin on their fingertip in order to clean under their nails? No. So don't do it to the skin on their penis either.

Tell DH that MIL should stay with another family member/friend or at a hotel as you will be too busy with two children to entertain overnight house guests. When your baby is born, while you're still in the hospital, have the midwife explain to him that he should never pull back the baby's foreskin so its coming from a professional. He can then pass this information on to MIL.

I don't get the CSA reference. You and she don't speak the same language? So I really don't see how you have picked up this inferred intent?
Tell your dh that it will not be happening.

We got given the opposite advice when I had my son in December. Infact, he has a slightly retracted foreskin and they're a bit worried about it, but we've been told not to touch it at all, and to try and avoid letting things retract it. It massively increases infection risk and causes tearing. It's really not a good idea.

My MIL has been a nightmare for unwanted advice and generally trying to overrule me. DH standing up to her has been the only thing that helped. You need to be 100% on the same page with DH before she knows that you're expecting again, so he can shut it down upfront and then again and again whenever it's raised until it ends.

Covid. Surely she can't come straight to your house off a plane!

Of course you will all visit as soon as you can.

NC for this. My DH had a problem with his foreskin being too tight and needed cream to make the skin thinner so he could get it back (as an adult). FIL seems to have suffered from the same thing, so I think it can run in families. We are actually considering getting future DS circumcised to avoid the same issue developing. If your DH or his dad/brothers had the same issue that could explain it. It was really quite painful for DH. However I would definitely ask a healthcare professional, ideally in front of MIL!

We were told to do this with DS when he was a baby, by a GP and a health visitor - but that was 20 years ago, and it may not be regarded as good practice now. I'd only do it on the advice of an actual medical professional, not my MIL. In fact, if you're afraid your DH might go along with MIL, you could seek medical advice on whether it's advisable or not. My guess is they'll say no - which you could then use with DH as a definite reason not to.

I have a teen boy and I’ve never heard of this before and would never have dreamt of doing anything of that nature at all.
I’m sure your mil doesn’t have sinister intent, but it really is a weird topic to be so fixated and insistent on. I would follow NHS guidance and leave well alone.

I think this is cultural vs your MIL and DH being pedophiles and abusing children if they were to do it. In some cultures, this may be the medical advise they are given and doing something that is culturally indicated doesn't make one a sexual abuser. Telling your husband you would see him as a sexual predator if he did something that was cultural / advised in his culture is pretty cruel.

Given you don't speak the language and don't talk directly to your MIL, I am not sure how you know she goes on and on about this in every call. You seem to really not like her at all.

Perhaps you could have your DH speak to your doctor and get UK medical advice. I certainly wouldn't have her come. That sounds like it would be a disaster for everyone.

I hope Keep Your Fucking Hands Off My dc is relatable in any language...

You have been through a lot OP, but describing this as CSA is a massive reach. This is definitely a recommended (medical) practise in some countries, I can see why you don't want to do it but saying you don't trust her due to risk of CSA is quite dramatic.

@Hoppinggreen - four different women who raised sons. I know two were told by HV, third was told that if she had done this to her son as a baby he wouldn't have had the medical problems he had, by a hospital consultant. The fourth never disclosed to me who told her. This was decades ago so maybe its different now, same as how to lay babies down in the cots. Different times, different advice.

Refuse her coming to help.

DH is another problem though if he’s so rigid on his DM’s authority. I’d be asking the DR/MW at every appointment he attends with you, and everyone professional you deal with during and after the birth about this “practice” and hope he hears it enough times before your DS arrives how unnecessary it is.

According to the NHS, most uncircumcised baby boys have a foreskin that will not pull back (retract) because it's still attached to the glans.

This is perfectly normal for about the first 2 to 6 years. By around the age of 2, the foreskin should start to separate naturally from the glans.

The foreskin of some boys can take longer to separate, but this does not mean there's a problem – it'll just detach at a later stage.

Never try to force your child's foreskin back before it's ready because it may be painful and damage the foreskin.

So would you trust your MIL who seems to have a fixation on little boys' bits or the NHS who presumably had somebody who knew something about babies to write their information.