Huge problem with MIL. Involves child genitalia - sensitive topic

[Squiff70]

I decided not to NC for this so that MN mods can see if necessary that I'm a long-term poster and not a troll. I will try to be as sensitive as possible about such an emotive and delicate topic.

For reference, I have a 2 year old daughter. We lost her twin brother shortly after birth due to prematurity.

I'm currently 20 weeks pregnant with a little boy.

When we were expecting our twins - a boy and girl - just over two years ago, my MIL stuck her foot in in every way possible. She insisted I breastfeed both babies for at least six months. I told her (whilst pregnant) that I would TRY to BF and hoped that it would work out but laughed her hurtful and unnecessary comments off that I would "try BF until it sent me crazy". Our twins were born extremely prematurely and despite trying like crazy for five weeks, my milk never came in (I was also very ill with sepsis and our son passed away during this time too). I was and still am devastated that I wasn't able to provide my babies with breast milk.

Putting that aside, during that same pregnancy, MIL told us time and time again that we would have to "manipulate our son's genitals" every day so that he wouldn't grow up with a tight foreskin. She claims to have done this with her two sons (my DP and his brother) and said "it worked for them". I told DP that there was absolutely no way on this Earth that I would be doing this to our child and neither would he. He said HE would do it because his mum's word, apparently, is gospel. I told him I felt this was CSA (or borderline) and totally unnecessary unless advised by a paediatrician for medical reasons. He told me I was over-reacting but I remained firm that it was absolutely not going to happen.

Since our son passed away it hasn't been mentioned. As I said, I'm 20 weeks pregnant and we've recently found out it's a little boy. DP hasn't yet told his mum we're expecting another baby (it's a cultural thing - they are not British) but I am TERRIFIED that when he does tell her, and she finds out we're having another boy, that these demands (masked as motherly advice) will fire back up again.

Thankfully his mum lives in her native country, elsewhere but within Europe. She is planning to visit in June. She's only met our daughter a couple of times and I wouldn't leave her unattended with our baby.

When our son is born, DP wants his mum to come over to help us. I have significant health problems and my partner works BUT there's absolutely no way I would trust her alone with either of my children and if I am/DP is changing either of their nappies, I don't want her in the same room.

How the hell do I handle this? I feel way out of my depth. I can't talk to her myself as she doesn't speak any English and I don't speak any of her native language either. Even if that were possible, it would be an incredibly awkward conversation.

Lastly, my DP is a wonderful dad. I've never ever had reason to mistrust him with our daughter. We bath her together and he's changed hundreds of nappies when I both have and haven't been present. I trust him with my life and my daughter's life and there's no reason to think he would ever dream of harming her in any way. It's just his mum I am worried about and how what she says to DP can influence some of his parenting decisions.

Please help!

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

It's disgusting to even think about, but PP was right that deliberately 'preparing' a very young boy for sex when he's older by interfering with his foreskin is just as appalling as it would be to keep poking your finger into a young girl's genitals to supposedly 'prepare' her for sex when she's older.

Anybody who genuinely believes in and advocates either of these - to be honest, even spends time considering it - seriously should not be allowed to be alone near children.

Bit of an overreaction... OK, it's outdated advice that has now been disproven, but the fact is that (in some countries at least) it used to be The Done Thing on the advice of Doctors, to prevent a potentially painful medical condition.

The fact that doctors no longer recommend it doesn't mean there's anything sinister about the parents who followed that advice in good faith on the advice of their doctor back in the day.

She wouldn’t be coming into my house, and he certainly isn’t a good dad or husband if he’s not listening to you.

It's very outdated advice. It did used to be recommended, along with routinely circumcising boys whose foreskin wasn't fully retractile by about 2 years old.
I was given similar advice when my now 18 year old was a baby but questioned it and discovered that ot was not recommended and tgat knowledge about the natural development of the foreskin has moved on quite a lot.
This page from the British Association of Urological Surgeons is quite useful.
www.baus.org.uk/patients/conditions/13/tight_foreskin_phimosis

I’ve never heard of this, although my ds had to be circumcised at 13 after having repeated foreskin problems.

Anyway, if it doesn’t sit right with you, it should categorically not happen. If it was a ‘thing’ we’d all know about it.

NHS advice on this

www.nhs.uk/conditions/phimosis/

Never try to force the foreskin back.

You’re not overreacting. I would feel exactly the same. I have never done this with my DS’s neither would I.
Stick with you’re instincts on this.

OP, it might help if you tell us which country/culture/religion MIL is from. That way, people familiar with the done thing in that country/culture/religion might be able to reassure you that this is usual practise and/or is outdated practise but older generations recommend it.

I don't think it's likely to be sexual in motive. This is a common fear in countries where circumcision is common, it's part of how it's justified. If the baby's penis is normal though you should definitely leave it alone. You can cause damage by trying to retract it too early.

Sometimes it's necessary, for instance DS3 has a mild hypospadias which means his foreskin is not attached like a baby's normally is. We need to move it and clean underneath it, otherwise it gets infected and sore. Nobody told us this so of course we didn't touch it as we hadn't moved the previous two! So it could be easy for somebody to come across a situation like this and incorrectly justify it out to all baby boys and think that retracting the foreskin is something that needs to be done. It's not, in most cases you just need to leave it alone.

I would ask your doctor for advice. Tell the doctor exactly what your MIL has said. If the doctor says it is unnecessary, let this be your ‘get out’, not that you need one! Tell your husband and your MIL in no uncertain terms that you will be following the doctors advice and so should they. Don’t leave your MIL alone wirh the new baby. If your husband won’t back you up, you need to really put your point across wirh no room for negotiation.
If your MIL lives abroad, that will limit her contact hopefully.

So sorry for all you have been through and you must still be grieving so it is upmost important that you put yourself first now so you stay healthy and I hope you have someone to talk to about the loss of your lovely son as this is a very traumatic life changing situation that you have had to go through. Sending big hugs as so sad. Do not give yourself a hard time about breast feeding at all. I was the only mum in the ward after I had my son who is now a 6ft 2 who has rarely been sick so just do what pleases and suits your situation. So much pressure from other mums to breastfeed and it does not suit every new mum for many reasons. I would put off the mil visiting. I think it is just cultural issue but it is your baby and talking to your midwife and getting her to talk to your husband is the step you should take and then your husband can talk to her. She is just of a different generation and culture so naturally it is a difficult situation for you but when she is visiting it is your rules but just let half of what she says go over your head as she probably does not mean any harm. Congrats on new pregnancy and your little family but please make sure you have some support and your husband as you probably have been so busy with the little one that you haven't had time to process it all. He is probably also feeling the loss but less unable to express how he feels. When she visits could you have a family member also visit as it will give you some support also.

No idea if true or not, I have DD.
Speak to MW/G.P and say “yes, I’ll do it” to your MIL and then don’t.

Or- take your DH /make sure he is present at any appointment and raise the matter.

Ok so what I did in this scenario is not advisable but did work. It was circumcision.

I told DH that if his mother mentioned my sons penis one more time, I would ask her at the dining table how her vagina was that day. Seeing as genitals are topic of the day right! Let’s have it MIL, how’s your vulva doing?

It did nothing for our relationship but she never asked me again and my sons remain intact.

My health visitor did this to DS when he was a newborn. I was horrified. A few years later I asked rhe GP if we needed to do anything as DS foreskin looked very tight. GP chuckled and said no, teenage boys will work any issues out themselves!

It doesn’t sound v much like you want her to come and stay. If the tickets haven’t been purchased yet, you should be clear about that fact. For your MIL’s sake as well as your own.

@Pixiedust1234

I don't have a son but I have heard it is something that needs to be done to enable cleaning of the foreskin to prevent infections. If the foreskin is too tight it can crack/bleed etc.

I have a son, my bloke has two. We’re both gobstruck at this “advice”, none of our boys had this done. They’re all grown men now.

Recently become a mother of a DS. I specifically asked our HV if we should be cleaning under our son's foreskin regularly and she said no, when they are so little the foreskin won't actually retract and you can cause damage by trying to. I am in the UK and this advice was given in Jan.
I think you need to just stick to your party line that unless a medical practitioner tells you to do it you won't be doing it but thanks.for your concern MIL.

This is definitely a thing e.g. in Italy. To go from that to "my MIL is a paedophile" is quite a jump!

@BabyDriversMummy

Firstly. I’m so terribly sorry for your loss.

Secondly - how lovely to be expecting another little one. I pray it’s a (relatively!) easy and simple birth and you get to enjoy being a new mum.

This is such a sensitive subject.

In short. Yes. You must (very very gently) move the foreskin when changing baby boys. Not least to clean thoroughly so he does not become sore.

Anecdotally, I have known four men who were circumcised later because this wasn’t done when they were a baby.

Try not to worry (easier said than done). This should be a time of hope and joy.

Good luck and God bless you all.

NO YOU MUST NOT. This is wrong and dangerous advice.

Like many practices times and advice have changed. I think it’s the same as putting babies on their tummies etc and what was once thought to be the best thing isn’t advised anymore. You’re right to do what is advised by HCP and MIL needs to respect that. I don’t think it’s to do with abuse unless there’s more to it

Say you'll ask your doctor/gp and if he advises you to do so you will. A few days later tell her you asked the doctor and they said absolutely not to.

My nephews and son, were all circumcised, and when in diapers we had to make sure that area was well cleaned with poopy diapers, other than that we left it alone. I am in the US and that's what the doctors recommend here, but I dont think MIL means anything sexual about it, but your child, your decision if you want her or anyone changing your childrens diapers.

If she still insists tell her you'll take her medical advise when she qualifies as a doctor

It is bad and outdated advice. But you should be able to choose not to take it without such dramatic consequences as having to prevent your mil being alone with your children or rejecting her offer of help completely.

I’m a bit sceptical that you can be sure she’s “obsessed” with this if you don’t share a language and it’s all coming through dh. Have you asked him why it apparently keeps coming up? What does he really think about it? Is it such an issue because actually he agrees with her? Or maybe because he doesn’t agree but this is the first time he has stood up to her?
Also are you sure the bf comments aren’t due to English not being her native language?
It would be really sad if this came between your children and their grandmother.

As others have said this is outdated advice, and you should only do manipulation to baby boy's penis if it's needed for medical reason. For most baby boy's it's just a case of keeping the area clean and watching out for infection before they can take over, just like you'd do for the rest of their body.

One thing i would add is when foreskin does retract it is important for them to be cleaning the area so bacteria doesn't accumulate under bit that retracts and cause issues. They should be taking care of their own hygeine at this point (and to be honest most boys take care of this instinctively with a little fiddling during shower time), but might be worth a quick gentle reminder at this point during the puberty talk if you talk about those issues early enough. My cousin's parents were embarrassed about discussing anything penis related with him, and due to not knowing he ended up with unpleasant medical concequences.

Good luck op. I think the advice of getting a medical professional to tell DH current medical advice is your best bet to get him on your side.