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Why is the USA banning abortion?

516 replies

MindPalace · 08/04/2022 13:03

It is absolutely horrifying that 21-26 US states are actively considering outlawing abortion. There are no exemptions for rape or incest in many of the proposals.

I see lots of news articles on this eg this one

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/08/oklahomas-move-to-ban-abortions-is-a-prelude-of-america-without-roe-v-wade

But I can’t find one setting out the reasons why. Why on earth would they want to set back hard-won women’s rights?

And Poland as well. It’s quite scary.

Sorry if there is another recent thread on this btw.

OP posts:
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CarryonCovid · 08/04/2022 17:05

I was a cradle Catholic believing abortion was murder- until I became a doctor, then I thought it was justifiable under certain circumstances, then I became a mother, I am now very pro-choice, no woman or girl should be forced to go through pregnancy and childbirth. FWIW most terminations ( like 90%) are first trimester, so for me medically speaking it is absolutely not a baby.

HangingRock25 · 08/04/2022 17:05

@Thejoyfulstar Around 70 to 75% of all fertilised eggs end in a period. Most 'conceptions' are not viable. Therefore it is actually invalid to argue for life from conception. It is only a 'viable' conception if implanted in the uterine wall. You can argue that life begins at implantation. You can't argue it begins at conception. Because that would make only 20-25% of conceptions valid.

Regardless, the bottom line is that the life of the born, actual, existing human must always, always trump something with no sentience, no heartbeat, no brainstem, and no nervous system.

Because to argue the opposite to that is to argue for Gestational Slavery. To argue a woman is not even, and only an incubator, a broodmare. With no human rights at all whatsoever.

Regardless of your position on life begins at implantation or conception, you cannot deny that an actual person's life must not be forced into servitude or stripped of human rights. No one can deny that a woman, in fact men too, must have rights to bodily autonomy. We cannot even remove people's organs from a deceased person, a corpse, to donate without prior consent. The same with forcing someone to give someone a kidney. Or donate blood or marrow.

To force a woman into gestational servitude against her will renders a woman with less right than a CORPSE. It's only blind ideology that would stop you seeing the real human reality that is. That women have less human rights, than a corpse. If that doesn't wake a lot of people up, then the ideological dogma and stubbornness is far too strong to prevent them from seeing actual real life effects of their ideological argument.

Polyanthus2 · 08/04/2022 17:06

Americans, many of them, are not like us in teh way they think. We are much more like Europeans but because they speak mainly english we copy their way of life, watch their films and tv.

But their country is probably much more divided than ours and going to get worse.

Pyewhacket · 08/04/2022 17:06

@QuinkWashable

AND ONE MORE THING.

If you're going to ban abortions, then you should have absolutely draconian rules on child support, which need to be at a level to actually support the child properly, and the mother for the maternity period. Perhaps then men will start taking it seriously, once their wallet is hit (since we can't force them to accept the risk of injury the woman also has to go through)

You can go to jail in the US for not paying child support, even if the child isn't yours and you can prove it. How more draconian do you want, flogging in the town square ?.
CarryonCovid · 08/04/2022 17:06

Agree late abortions are rare and heart breaking for everybody, nearly always the least bad option.

TooManyPJs · 08/04/2022 17:07

@BlueThursday

In summary: abortion bad, electric chair good Hmm
Yes quite. Apparently all life is sacred. Until it isn't.
DandyMandy · 08/04/2022 17:09

America is a joke of a country at times. It reminds me how where I'm from (North of Ireland) abortion has only been legal for two years and the protestant politicians have cried about it because they're now a minority in the North and they're scared about losing power and privilege because their numbers are falling. America is the same. White male protestants believe they're better than everyone else, so they want to make women suffer.

UhtredsLatestPaganHussy · 08/04/2022 17:10

You don't need to explain Roe v Wade to me, @MayMorris, I'm aware of its significance and impact. But you were wrong when you confidently stated:

'🤔🥴because abortion in USA was ILLEGAL until 1973🤦‍♀️'

Abortion was legal in several US states prior to 1973.

tabbycatstripy · 08/04/2022 17:11

I think in the US there are millions and millions of people who find abortion deeply morally wrong. I’m pro-choice but I’m not confused about why they don’t like it.

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 08/04/2022 17:13

I'm a Charismatic Christian and once upon a time I joined a Christian chat forum that was predominantly Americans. My take away from that is that they're absolutely fucking mental. They shouldn't be involved in any grown up decision making.

midsomermurderess · 08/04/2022 17:14

@tabbycatstripy

I think in the US there are millions and millions of people who find abortion deeply morally wrong. I’m pro-choice but I’m not confused about why they don’t like it.
I don't particularly like it, but I am not in the business of telling any other woman they can't do it.
Thejoyfulstar · 08/04/2022 17:14

@MindPalace

Thanks *@Thejoyfulstar*. It’s interesting to hear your views. As you might guess, I do still disagree - the arguments for this have been fully set out here by others - but you should of course be entitled to express your view.

I suppose I would argue that, as banning abortions potentially affects the well-being of so many people and so severely (maternity deaths, children with a very low chance of surviving, neglect or abuse of children, poverty, lack of support after birth, depression of the mother) that legislators need to pass laws that support rather than remove the option of abortion.

But thank you for having the courage to express your views.

Thanks for being interested in the other side's view. I think that the issue is very nuanced, as somebody previously said, and one person can hold an understanding of lots of simultaneous issues at the one time, and still come away with an overarching sense of what they feel is the ultimate 'right'. My beliefs don't come down to a desire to enslave women at all, more of a sense of not being able to get past a huge moral jar. It's impossible for me to get past it no matter what the other factors are. Ultimately people will make their own decisions and I stay out of the business of others. It doesn't mean I agree, even in principle with what they do, but it's not my life or my conscience. I hope that makes sense. Anyway I'm going to leave it at that as I actually really hate discussing this topic. I hope I explained myself with some kind of clarity anyway.
QuinkWashable · 08/04/2022 17:14

You can go to jail in the US for not paying child support, even if the child isn't yours and you can prove it. How more draconian do you want, flogging in the town square ?

Well, actually having punishment is a good start, but it's clearly not working as the poverty rate of white single mothers (first stat I've found, and lets face it, they're probably doing better than the black/hispanic single mothers) is 20%.

DandyMandy · 08/04/2022 17:15

The same people in the US who claim to be pro life also support the death penalty. The jokes write themselves.

Lasagnethyme · 08/04/2022 17:15

They see it as protecting (unborn) women and children's rights, the same reason they are gender critical/anti-trans.

tabbycatstripy · 08/04/2022 17:16

‘I don't particularly like it, but I am not in the business of telling any other woman they can't do it.’

Same. Not sure I could have an abortion. But I only own this body, and I’m only responsible for my own actions. That’s why I’m pro-choice.

speakout · 08/04/2022 17:16

BringBackCoffeeCreams
I'm a Charismatic Christian and once upon a time I joined a Christian chat forum that was predominantly Americans. My take away from that is that they're absolutely fucking mental.

Very judgemental and perjorative to dismiss a whole nation as "mental". Not to mention the use of a nasty term to describe mental illness.
Very " unchristian".

nopuppiesallowed · 08/04/2022 17:18

You have put this very clearly. Thank you.

yellowsuninthesky · 08/04/2022 17:22

@Babochan88

It’s not about controlling women, if men were able to give birth - abortion would still be abhorrent
Ha ha. Although if men could give birth and women couldn't, then we'd just have oppression of men instead of women.
Rhondapearlman · 08/04/2022 17:22

@JanetPluchinsky

Banning abortion doesn’t stop abortions though. It just stops safe, legal ones.

America is a crazy place.

I agree. It’s incredibly backward in many ways.
BringBackCoffeeCreams · 08/04/2022 17:22

@speakout

*BringBackCoffeeCreams I'm a Charismatic Christian and once upon a time I joined a Christian chat forum that was predominantly Americans. My take away from that is that they're absolutely fucking mental.*

Very judgemental and perjorative to dismiss a whole nation as "mental". Not to mention the use of a nasty term to describe mental illness.
Very " unchristian".

I didn't dismis a whole nation. I specifically said the people on a specific chat forum.

And there's nothing unchristian about my use of language. The only requirements of being a Christian is to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and to choose to follow him. Everything else is man made fluff.

And I wasn't describing mental illness so that's also irrelevant.

TooManyPJs · 08/04/2022 17:23

@CarryonCovid

I was a cradle Catholic believing abortion was murder- until I became a doctor, then I thought it was justifiable under certain circumstances, then I became a mother, I am now very pro-choice, no woman or girl should be forced to go through pregnancy and childbirth. FWIW most terminations ( like 90%) are first trimester, so for me medically speaking it is absolutely not a baby.
I had almost the same journey! I didn't become a doctor but was very anti abortion in my youth but as I got older I saw what friends who fell pregnant young went through and counselled a couple through abortions. Then as you said as soon as I became a mother myself realised that the alternative to no abortions, forced pregnancy, was completely immoral and untenable. Fully pro-choice since then. No-one should be forced to go through pregnancy and childbirth.
GandTfortea · 08/04/2022 17:23

Maybe …people don’t hate women ..
But just think a foetus is a baby ..and why are they killing the most vulnerable members of society..

Blossomtoes · 08/04/2022 17:24

@speakout

*BringBackCoffeeCreams I'm a Charismatic Christian and once upon a time I joined a Christian chat forum that was predominantly Americans. My take away from that is that they're absolutely fucking mental.*

Very judgemental and perjorative to dismiss a whole nation as "mental". Not to mention the use of a nasty term to describe mental illness.
Very " unchristian".

She didn’t dismiss a whole nation, she dismissed the people in that group. Nor was she describing a mental illness; she could equally have said batshit or bonkers - we all use those terms to describe off the wall behaviour. But then you knew that and just wanted to virtue signal.
yellowsuninthesky · 08/04/2022 17:25

@Babochan88

It’s not about controlling women, if men were able to give birth - abortion would still be abhorrent
If that were actually the reason, there would be unlimited and free access to contraception.

And it's not for others to impose disabled children on mothers, either. Most later abortions are because the baby will be badly disabled. There are in fact virtually no late abortions in the UK, probably because we have scans early on. People get emotional about "babies" being aborted. "Babies" are not aborted and if they are it's because they were very badly disabled and would not have survived for long anyway.