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Original poster

Why is the USA banning abortion?

516 replies

MindPalace · 08/04/2022 13:03

It is absolutely horrifying that 21-26 US states are actively considering outlawing abortion. There are no exemptions for rape or incest in many of the proposals.

I see lots of news articles on this eg this one

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/08/oklahomas-move-to-ban-abortions-is-a-prelude-of-america-without-roe-v-wade

But I can’t find one setting out the reasons why. Why on earth would they want to set back hard-won women’s rights?

And Poland as well. It’s quite scary.

Sorry if there is another recent thread on this btw.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Peregrina · 08/04/2022 16:42

They always seem to overlook that abortion is in the Bible, including a method on how to carry it out and specific mention of it not being a sin.

I am intrigued - where?

But I find this with the Fundamentalist Christians they tend to be highly selective about which bits of the Bible they choose to believe in. They have a tendency for example to gloss over the Gospels - without which it's not really Christianity. I say this as a regular church goer, who personally is very glad that I never had to make a decision about abortion but don't want to see women killing themselves with back street abortions.

HangingRock25 · 08/04/2022 16:46

@Babochan88

Hopefully because they realise how awful it is to allow laws that kill children. Yes. It’s a woman’s body - but you have no right to take a life.
@Babochan88 Yes. It’s a woman’s body - but

No buts. No buts about it. And it is not a 'life'. The woman has a life. Something with no sentience, no heartbeat, no brainstem is is not a life.

You have no right to force a woman into GESTATIONAL SLAVERY.

Synchrony · 08/04/2022 16:47

@MindPalace

I’m actually quite interested to see that there are still a fair few people (including women) against abortion. I naively thought that very few people, at least in the UK, thought like that anymore. At least we still have freedom of speech I suppose unless it’s about trans issues/women’s rights - a whole other thread
I know plenty.

I also know people who have lived out these beliefs (eg carrying a baby with a terminal diagnosis to term rather than abort it; offering to adopt the baby their friend didn't want).

None of them would support the ectopic pregnancy ban, which is clearly insane. To my knowledge they all support abortion if it is the only way to save the mother.

I would describe myself as "against abortion" but it's far more nuanced than that black and white statement. It's certainly possible to be against abortion without wanting to ban it.

BoreOfWhabylon · 08/04/2022 16:48

Abortion needs to remain legal on the statute books for women in situations of rape and abuse, and I mean that in a more broad sense, including coercive sex.

No. If you are pro-life because you believe that human life is sacred, then that must apply to ALL pregnancies, not just those of "deserving" women. Anything else is just misogyny cloaked in hypocrisy.

Just one of the reasons why I am pro-choice.

whumpthereitis · 08/04/2022 16:48

@Babochan88

Hopefully because they realise how awful it is to allow laws that kill children. Yes. It’s a woman’s body - but you have no right to take a life.
Funny that, because I was able to access an abortion fairly easily. Legally too. I guess we do ‘have the right’, at least in the UK.

Whether women ‘have the right’ or not, in the eyes of the law or whatever god you may want to point to, is irrelevant when the reality is that women will have abortions anyway. They always have and they always will. It’s not a question of ‘killing children versus not killing children’, it’s a question of ‘legal abortion or illegal abortion’. Either way you’re getting abortion, but in the latter case you’re also getting severely injured and dead women.

HangingRock25 · 08/04/2022 16:48

@Babochan88

It’s not about controlling women, if men were able to give birth - abortion would still be abhorrent
@Babochan88 Please don't lie. It is ALL ABOUT controlling women. GESTATIONAL SLAVERY is abhorrent, and your opinion is abhorrent and repugnant.

When you support Gestational Slavery, you are saying you support the deaths of women. You have their blood on your hands. Blood of an ACTUAL life.

SockFluffInTheBath · 08/04/2022 16:48

@Babochan88

Hopefully because they realise how awful it is to allow laws that kill children. Yes. It’s a woman’s body - but you have no right to take a life.
Genuine question- If it can’t survive independently out of its host is it really alive?
GiantHaystacks2021 · 08/04/2022 16:49

They just want us barefoot and pregnant and under control.

bellaiceberg · 08/04/2022 16:51

I'm not too familiar with the American class system, although am aware that it is somewhat different to ours. Could there be a class element to any of this, regarding what a pp said about lack of education?

In the UK I have noticed more outward acknowledgement of alt/neo right sentiments from ...certain social groups.

I have a neighbour who thinks the BBC ought to be taken off air because of it's 'feminist heavy leanings' that make her uncomfortable Confused
She also dropped contact with her daughter because she chose to go to university.

Thejoyfulstar · 08/04/2022 16:52

Yes I agree with this. I feel the same, and the same as your friends re: ectopic pregnancy

BruceAndNosh · 08/04/2022 16:52

Unfortunately anti abortion goes hand in hand with anti Planned Parenthood.
So they are also making access to contraception harder. Plus many schools are forbidden from doing Sex Ed.

Original poster
MindPalace · 08/04/2022 16:53

Thanks @Thejoyfulstar. It’s interesting to hear your views. As you might guess, I do still disagree - the arguments for this have been fully set out here by others - but you should of course be entitled to express your view.

I suppose I would argue that, as banning abortions potentially affects the well-being of so many people and so severely (maternity deaths, children with a very low chance of surviving, neglect or abuse of children, poverty, lack of support after birth, depression of the mother) that legislators need to pass laws that support rather than remove the option of abortion.

But thank you for having the courage to express your views.

OP posts:
latriciamcneal · 08/04/2022 16:53

[quote SockFluffInTheBath]@latriciamcneal

Well yes but there's all and there's all.

To take inspiration from Animal Farm... All people are equal but some are more white middle class evangelical 'christian' male equal than others

They're restricting white people's access to abortion too.

Not for males they’re not. Her point was that the white middle-class evangelical MALES are more equal than the others (women).[/quote]
In areas where they dominate, certainly that's not surprising. That will apply to all demographics where that demographic is the majority.

namechange12161991 · 08/04/2022 16:54

I dont believe any government should pass laws on abortion.
Saying that pro choice is increasingly becoming as bad as pro life. I Say that as someone who's had two abortions.

BruceAndNosh · 08/04/2022 16:54

I've had an ectopic pregnancy. So what would they prefer happen to me?
Bleed to death when it ruptures?

Muminabun · 08/04/2022 16:56

I am a Christian and I think abortion should be free and legal in the first trimester and after that only for medical reasons.
The UK current legal limit of 24 weeks is brutal and quite frankly murder. We need reform in this area.
The US is religious. Religions are not on board with abortion because it is seen as killing a human for reasons of ultimately lifestyle choice. There is also concern about the huge amount of black women and black babies that are aborted so it is seen as a fascist issue as well as a religious one. There have been harrowing accounts by staff re late term abortions and whistleblowers about late term abortions and infanticide at planned parenthood and other abortion clinics. I don’t think that people are comfortable with this being tax payer funded. The pro lifers also argue that this is a woman’s rights issue as woman are under pressure to abort babies and this emotionally traumatises them. There are definitely two sides to this debate and I do see both sides and think both sides have credibility but not late term abortions.

QuinkWashable · 08/04/2022 16:57

A baby born before 24 weeks has less than a 50 percent chance at survival

At 21 weeks they'll give the baby basically no chance of survival - almost none make it. The floor for how young babies can survive outside of their mother's womb is not falling, and is not likely to fall for the foreseeable future.

You'll note on these things that the people signing the bills are generally all men, who have nothing to lose. Or well off women, who have nothing to lose (and you bet would march their daughters over to a clinic if it happened - read some of the testimonials on it)

Aimee1987 · 08/04/2022 16:57

@BruceAndNosh

I've had an ectopic pregnancy. So what would they prefer happen to me? Bleed to death when it ruptures?
Even in Irelands strict abortion laws ectopic pregnancies were an exception. As you say fatal if not treated.

The response of doctors to their reimplantation idea is a very much wtf it's not medically possible.

QuinkWashable · 08/04/2022 16:59

And no-woman aborts a 24 week baby on a whim. It's done to save the mother, or because the baby faces an agonising death otherwise. Read the stats on it.

And if women are needing repeat abortions, then we need to help them find a way to stop having risky sex, not force them to have a baby.

As soon as possible, as late as necessary. I will never change from that belief.

FourTeaFallOut · 08/04/2022 17:00

Misogyny and political reluctance to compensate for the rapidly declining birth rates with immigrant labour which ultimately risks long term economic growth.

dfendyr · 08/04/2022 17:00

@namechange12161991

I dont believe any government should pass laws on abortion. Saying that pro choice is increasingly becoming as bad as pro life. I Say that as someone who's had two abortions.
How do you mean?

Surely pro choice is about giving the PREGNANT WOMAN the ability to what happens to HER BODY ?

MayMorris · 08/04/2022 17:00

@UhtredsLatestPaganHussy

Sorry, *@MayMorris*, but you're misinformed there. Abortion was actually legal in several US states prior to Roe v Wade's landmark case in 1973. Smile
No I’m not wrong really…the point being , like now, states can set their own laws…but prior to 1973 there was no federal legislation…this is what Roe v Wade was about. Up till then it was a shit show of who was elected as senators etc within in state. Roe v Wade gave a constitutional right as such…it is that law that is preventing states right now getting away with extreme anti abortion laws …and it is that case , roe v Wade, that is crucial to over rule
QuinkWashable · 08/04/2022 17:01

AND ONE MORE THING.

If you're going to ban abortions, then you should have absolutely draconian rules on child support, which need to be at a level to actually support the child properly, and the mother for the maternity period. Perhaps then men will start taking it seriously, once their wallet is hit (since we can't force them to accept the risk of injury the woman also has to go through)

Turefu · 08/04/2022 17:02

I didnt read whole thread. Poland virtually banned abortion. There was an arrest recently : woman was arrested for giving other woman abortion pills. Who reported her? You guessed it: pregnant woman’s violent husband. Now she’s waiting for her case in court. If sentenced , it’ll be the first case in Poland someone is punished for helping to have abortion .

dfendyr · 08/04/2022 17:04

@Muminabun

I am a Christian and I think abortion should be free and legal in the first trimester and after that only for medical reasons. The UK current legal limit of 24 weeks is brutal and quite frankly murder. We need reform in this area. The US is religious. Religions are not on board with abortion because it is seen as killing a human for reasons of ultimately lifestyle choice. There is also concern about the huge amount of black women and black babies that are aborted so it is seen as a fascist issue as well as a religious one. There have been harrowing accounts by staff re late term abortions and whistleblowers about late term abortions and infanticide at planned parenthood and other abortion clinics. I don’t think that people are comfortable with this being tax payer funded. The pro lifers also argue that this is a woman’s rights issue as woman are under pressure to abort babies and this emotionally traumatises them. There are definitely two sides to this debate and I do see both sides and think both sides have credibility but not late term abortions.
Do you think that the average woman needing an abortion near 24 weeks is having it for fun?

Why do you think a woman would want an abortion at such a late stage? I want to live in a world where women dont want / need late term abortions, but sadly a small minority do need them