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Why is the USA banning abortion?

516 replies

MindPalace · 08/04/2022 13:03

It is absolutely horrifying that 21-26 US states are actively considering outlawing abortion. There are no exemptions for rape or incest in many of the proposals.

I see lots of news articles on this eg this one

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/08/oklahomas-move-to-ban-abortions-is-a-prelude-of-america-without-roe-v-wade

But I can’t find one setting out the reasons why. Why on earth would they want to set back hard-won women’s rights?

And Poland as well. It’s quite scary.

Sorry if there is another recent thread on this btw.

OP posts:
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speakout · 08/04/2022 17:25

But then you knew that and just wanted to virtue signal.

Yawn.

Peregrina · 08/04/2022 17:25

But it wasn't all Americans being dismissed as 'mental'. As I read it, it was a particular group of Fundamentalists who appeared to have taken leave of their senses.

MindPalace · 08/04/2022 17:26

State representative Jim Olsen is a key proponent of the anti-abortion legislation that has just been passed in Oklahoma.

He compares termination to slavery. The fact that he is listened to and supported is chilling. What he has said in the attached makes me lost for words.

Why is the USA banning abortion?
OP posts:
yellowsuninthesky · 08/04/2022 17:26

@GandTfortea

Maybe …people don’t hate women .. But just think a foetus is a baby ..and why are they killing the most vulnerable members of society..
At which point I bring up again access to contraception.

Open your eyes! It is 100% about controlling feckless women who dared to have sex. And even if they were raped they were asking for it. Sinful daughters of Eve and all that.

ddl1 · 08/04/2022 17:26

@BuffyFanForever

It is absolutely not about hating women. Half of the babies aborted are women! It is due to the continuing scientific and medical knowledge being gained. There are many babies born at 20weeks who now survive and thrive (this is the abortion limit in this country which is shocking). Yes there are strong lobbyists in the US who are Christian but there are also many other people who support the rights of babies to not be harmed.
It is not true that many babies survive being born at 20 weeks. Nowadays a baby has a fairly good chance of survival if born at 24 weeks ; some chance if born at 23 weeks; a small chance at 22 weeks. I think there are 2 or 3 known cases of babies surviving birth before 22 weeks, and it's possible that the dates were wrong. And the vast majority of abortions are before 20 weeks.
WiseUpJanetWeiss · 08/04/2022 17:27

@Lasagnethyme

They see it as protecting (unborn) women and children's rights, the same reason they are gender critical/anti-trans.
You're suggesting rad fems are "pro life"?
nopuppiesallowed · 08/04/2022 17:27

☝️
The above was meant for @Thejoyfulstar....

GandTfortea · 08/04/2022 17:27

But contraception can fail ,and does fail ..

midsomermurderess · 08/04/2022 17:28

If the state intervenes in the choices a woman can make about her body, her fertility, shuts down, leaves no room for manoeuvre, criminalises, prosecutes her for the choices she make about her own body, that is control, it is the very essence of control.

yellowsuninthesky · 08/04/2022 17:29

Open your eyes! It is 100% about controlling feckless women who dared to have sex. And even if they were raped they were asking for it. Sinful daughters of Eve and all that

I also think this is one of the reasons we have such poor maternity care in the UK as well because of the puritanical notion that women have had sex (even if married, and even though we kind of need to if we want to continue the human race) and therefore should suffer.

Ringmaster27 · 08/04/2022 17:29

@midsomermurderess pretty no one relishes in the idea.

UhtredsLatestPaganHussy · 08/04/2022 17:29

@GandTfortea

Maybe …people don’t hate women .. But just think a foetus is a baby ..and why are they killing the most vulnerable members of society..
No.

If that were the case they'd be in favour of more government support to the poorest families. Paid maternity leave, subsidised childcare. Things that would make an actual difference to children in low income families.

But of course, they're not.

yellowsuninthesky · 08/04/2022 17:29

@midsomermurderess

If the state intervenes in the choices a woman can make about her body, her fertility, shuts down, leaves no room for manoeuvre, criminalises, prosecutes her for the choices she make about her own body, that is control, it is the very essence of control.
Exactly.
midsomermurderess · 08/04/2022 17:30

[quote Ringmaster27]@midsomermurderess pretty no one relishes in the idea.[/quote]
With all due respect, you are stating the bleeding obvious. I don't even understand why you are stating sometime so obvious. Nor did I suggest anything like that.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 08/04/2022 17:34

@BuffyFanForever

There are many babies born at 20weeks who now survive and thrive

Do you have a source for this?

Because as far as I'm aware it's simply not true.

So I would be interested in seeing the source that has led you to the conclusion that it is.

HangingRock25 · 08/04/2022 17:35

@GandTfortea

Maybe …people don’t hate women .. But just think a foetus is a baby ..and why are they killing the most vulnerable members of society..
@GandTfortea Except a foetus isn't a 'member of society', it isn't a baby any more than a grape is wine, an acorn is an oak tree, or cake batter is a cake. The most vulnerable member of society is the woman. The actual person. Not something that is not a baby, not a human being, and has no brainstem or sentience or heartbeat. The woman is the only vulnerable person involved in this discussion.
ddl1 · 08/04/2022 17:36

It's not the whole USA; it's certain states where the religious right have a strong influence. Mostly in the South and parts of the Midwest. Considerable overlap with the states that voted for Trump. Let's not forget, by the way, that until very recently, part of the UK (NI) also has draconian laws on abortion.

DrSbaitso · 08/04/2022 17:36

It's always had a heavy right wing, puritanical leaning.

I don't think it's a coincidence that it's happening at the same time as so many people have found themselves unable to identify or define which class of person this affects.

HangingRock25 · 08/04/2022 17:38

@MindPalace

State representative Jim Olsen is a key proponent of the anti-abortion legislation that has just been passed in Oklahoma.

He compares termination to slavery. The fact that he is listened to and supported is chilling. What he has said in the attached makes me lost for words.

That he can't see that he supports actual slavery, Gestational Slavery, shows what an absolute hypocrite he is. Slavery of women is completely fine, according to him.
whumpthereitis · 08/04/2022 17:39

@GandTfortea

Maybe …people don’t hate women .. But just think a foetus is a baby ..and why are they killing the most vulnerable members of society..
Hard to argue, with a straight face at least, that they don’t when you consider the consequences of ‘saving babies’. Especially when said consequences aren’t even saved babies, but injured and dead women that have accessed illegal abortions.

For all the pro life talk of ‘women should take responsibility and face the consequences of their actions!’ its darkly amusing that they completely fail to acknowledge the consequences of the ideology they push. Do as I say and not as I do, and all that.

HangingRock25 · 08/04/2022 17:40

@GandTfortea

But contraception can fail ,and does fail ..
Which is exactly why abortion is needed. Because contraception fails. As peer-reviewed published medical journal data shows, the majority of women who seek a termination were on contraception and it failed. Hence the need for abortion.
speakout · 08/04/2022 17:41

I think the time limit/survivability aspect is a diversion.

If a baby was born at full term and for some reason needed to be linked up to a kidney/organ machine to a parent for survival, should that parent be forced to give life and supply to that child.
I would think not.
Humans have agency.
In the same context why should a women be forced to give life supply, to use her own body to sustain a foetus- at any stage of the pregnancy.
And if those thinking that she has an obligation, why does the unborn foetus have greater rights than a born child?

Women should have control over their bodies.

NotBlueforYou · 08/04/2022 17:43

Whatever your personal beliefs on abortion. The fact is that woman have always gotten abortions, and they always will get abortions. Backstreet abortions would likely be more traumatic to the woman and the foetus than most clinical ones. So, providing woman with a safe option is important. Women should have the right to decide about their own bodies, especially in cases such as rape and ectopic pregnancies.

However, there are some aspects of current abortion practices that are utterly indefensible. The ableist and eugenic practices that are happening right now in this country are shocking. The current abortion laws in the UK regarding disabled foetuses are just legalised and socially accepted genocide of a group of people with a supposed protected characteristic.

It’s completely legal to abort a pregnancy at 40 weeks if the foetus is found to have a disability, including something like a cleft lip which is completely fixable with surgery and after surgery will have no lifelong implication other than a tiny scar.

So, it’s legal to abort a baby that is completely capable of surviving on its own and living a normal life because at birth, the baby won’t be perfectly healthy. Say a 1-year-old fell over and cut their lip and needed surgery to repair it, do we say no, let’s just kill them, they will have no quality of life anyway? No, of course not.

Its disgusting, but not surprising. Parents constantly say that they don’t care if it’s a boy or a girl, they would love it either way, as long as its healthy. With the huge glaring implication that they wouldn’t love their baby if it wasn’t healthy. And that isn’t just conjecture, something like 90% of babies diagnosed with down syndrome in the womb are aborted.

I feel sorry for the children of parents that say they would only love their child if its healthy. If they get sick it must be devastating. They are unwell and having to be worried if their parents still love them? It must be so frightening, what happens if they don’t get better?

Its considered horrific sexism when people get abortions because the foetus is a girl, so it follows that it is horrific ableism when people get abortions because the foetus is disabled.

And the argument that disabled babies won’t thrive and would have a poor quality of life doesn’t work because what quality of life are girls born into today? 1 in 2 women are sexually assaulted and 1 in 5 women are raped.

What exactly is so unappealing about letting a disabled baby experience life? Even if it is a short and non-typical life. I have an incurable disability that causes me pain every day and I would choose life with the disability over no life every time. Sometimes I wonder if the suffering of the disabled baby isn’t the problem. The real problem is the accommodations the parents don’t want to make.

Women deserve equal rights, why don’t disabled people? Just to be really clear, I’m not proposing promoting the rights of the disabled at the expense of women and their rights. I’m saying the laws regarding when it is legal to abort a disabled baby should be the same as when it is legal to abort a non-disabled baby.

speakout · 08/04/2022 17:44

Ultimately it isn't even a moral question, it is a medical one.

Women will sometimes seek to terminate a pregnancy.
We can provide safe circumstances for that to be carried out or it will be done in unsafe and life threatening conditions.

speakout · 08/04/2022 17:47

Women deserve equal rights, why don’t disabled people?

Do the right of a disabed individual- or indeed any individual trump the needs of a woman?

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