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Next time I go to France I'm wearing a headscarf

284 replies

LaurieFairyCake · 07/04/2022 18:23

And I want every woman of faith (any faith) or no faith to do the same if that fucker wins Angry

(Marine le Bastard is saying women are not allowed to wear head scarves in France and that they will be fined)

OP posts:
PlasticPlantsDontDie · 07/04/2022 21:20

If men and women’s bodies are the same why don’t you walk topless when you’re dropping your kids off to school in the summers heat?!!

Being the same and being treated the same are two different things. And many people would like women to have the freedom to go topless in the summer heat. Or to breastfeed their babies in public without feeling ashamed.

It's not the difference in the bodies, but in the way society views them. And all societies have been more permissive towards men's dress codes than women. Why do you think that is?

Katya213 · 07/04/2022 21:21

@godmum56

I wonder what they do about Nuns and private schools?
What nuns? There aren’t any in this part of the world anymore.
TomatoCultivator · 07/04/2022 21:23

@user1471519931

Ok but in Iran, women must wear headscarves. Will you go there and intentionally not wear one? No, of course not, because you are afraid what they might do to punish you...be grateful you live in a Western European democracy!
Lauriefairycake I’d also like to know if you’d refuse to wear a headscarf if you visit Iran?
Wallywobbles · 07/04/2022 21:23

I teach at uni in France and a lot of my students cover their hair. They don't cover their faces at all though. They wear the hijab or the shayla. Honestly this is a non issue IME.

Something like this.

Next time I go to France I'm wearing a headscarf
Undecicive · 07/04/2022 21:25

@ScrollingLeaves

Not all Muslim women wear head scarves because they have to. I am not a Muslim and I don’t know the numbers of women who would say they are choosing this against those who feel they must, but remember that Nadya (the talented cook who won Bake Off) said she had chosen to as a young teen.
Of course..she might even feel like it. I have heard about 'their choice' from others as well. And remember the girl who could barely walk home due to a sore foot despite a male friend offering to help her get home as her 'father would have gone berserk'. I'm sure she's also made the same choixe a few years later. Ehh...
Changechangychange · 07/04/2022 21:27

It wasn’t long ago that the majority wore a head covering here

What? Imposed by religious rules on modesty?

Yep? Where else do you think the idea that only loose women have bare heads in public came from? Church rules on decent dress for women. Started with 1 Corinthians, and if you look up “Christian Headcoverings” on Wikipedia there are hundreds of examples of church law on Christian women needing to cover their heads in public (not just in church).

You’ll still be told to cover your head and dress modestly in some Catholic churches today, we went to a wedding in a Catholic church in Sheffield about ten years ago where hat and long sleeves were mandatory. And various cathedrals in Rome and Venice have spare skirts, hoods and capes they make you put on if you are deemed too skimpily-dressed (ie wearing a tshirt).

Baffling that you live in a Christian country and are so unaware of Christianity.

Undecicive · 07/04/2022 21:27

@Foreignmumof2

So wearing a head covering as a women is rooted in patriarchy now?

But Sikh men covering their hair is fine?

Are Sikh men covering their hair in case women get sexual feelings towards them?
Wallywobbles · 07/04/2022 21:27

@babyjellyfish she might well win. There are 3 very right wing popular choices and if push comes to shove if they back her she might win. DH says the left are so fucked off at the moment that they might also vote for her as a protest vote. It's happened before.

Ive been here 26 years and I'd see it's never looked more likely.

tkwal · 07/04/2022 21:29

Define headscarves ? Hermes surely won't be happy with that. Seriously though, all that law will achieve is to ensure women in head coverings become more oppressed as they are forced to stay indoors.

IsThePopeCatholic · 07/04/2022 21:29

I’d like to see men in headscarves. This will help me control my lust for them.

Changechangychange · 07/04/2022 21:29

@Katya213 there aren’t any nuns in France? What planet are you on, there are loads.

(And there are also plenty in the UK - just because you aren’t Catholic doesn’t mean nobody is - I mean at the very least did Derry Girls pass you by?)

Lesperance · 07/04/2022 21:30

France is also a very Catholic country. Are nuns and priests also going to be fined for wearing religious clothing in public? No they are not. It is bigotry, pure and simple.
I would not say that France is a very Catholic country. Catholicism is never mentioned in the mainstream press except when something goes wrong. What do you mean by very Catholic? @Changechangychange

MarshaBradyo · 07/04/2022 21:30

[quote Wallywobbles]@babyjellyfish she might well win. There are 3 very right wing popular choices and if push comes to shove if they back her she might win. DH says the left are so fucked off at the moment that they might also vote for her as a protest vote. It's happened before.

Ive been here 26 years and I'd see it's never looked more likely. [/quote]
Wally why are the left pissed off?

ICantChoose · 07/04/2022 21:30

As a British Muslim woman who has lived and worked in France, I can tell you that Islamophobia is real there. Maybe not so prevalent in the day to day dealings with work colleagues and friends but in the culture and societal structure itself.

On my first day of work, my boss called me into her office and literally told me that I am not allowed to wear my headscarf or any long skirt/dress because I look too "Islamist". She also told me not to mention this conversation to colleagues. As a 20 year old at the time and being in that kind of environment, I wasn't confident enough to do anything about the situation with colleagues. When I suggested that I could wear a turban style instead, she reluctantly agreed but tried the whole bullsht of "no other religions overtly show their religion so why should I". It was a really, really horrible experience and you can bet as soon as* I stepped foot out of that office building, I put my headscarf back on the way I usually wear it as an act of defiance.

Of course there are cultures where women are made to or shamed to wear the hijab, which is completely wrong, but forcing someone to uncover is just as bad as forcing someone to cover when it is not their choice.

You can argue that France is a secular country until you're blue in the face but for anyone who has lived or worked there, it's clear that there is a streak of Islamophobia and the whole secularism tripe often seems to point itself in the direction of Muslims.

And for whoever said it, a lot of North-African heritage Muslims are bothered by France's stance towards Muslims and the hijab. When I lived in Morocco, there were just as many hijab wearing as non-hijab wearing women. There have always been tensions between North-African Muslims (whether living in North Africa or in France) and the French, no doubt due in part to their colonial history. I actually live in an area in England where there has been a really big influx of Moroccan (in particular) heritage french Muslims who have moved to the UK precisely because of the situation in France regarding the treatment of Muslims.

Lesperance · 07/04/2022 21:31

As an example, @Changechangychange there isn't a candidate who is standing as a practising Catholic at this election. It's not a factor.

KimikosNightmare · 07/04/2022 21:33

@Changechangychange

It wasn’t long ago that the majority wore a head covering here

What? Imposed by religious rules on modesty?

Yep? Where else do you think the idea that only loose women have bare heads in public came from? Church rules on decent dress for women. Started with 1 Corinthians, and if you look up “Christian Headcoverings” on Wikipedia there are hundreds of examples of church law on Christian women needing to cover their heads in public (not just in church).

You’ll still be told to cover your head and dress modestly in some Catholic churches today, we went to a wedding in a Catholic church in Sheffield about ten years ago where hat and long sleeves were mandatory. And various cathedrals in Rome and Venice have spare skirts, hoods and capes they make you put on if you are deemed too skimpily-dressed (ie wearing a tshirt).

Baffling that you live in a Christian country and are so unaware of Christianity.

Yeah, that's just the same as a hijab. Your "comparisons" are beyond disingenuous.
ohleboulot · 07/04/2022 21:35

@Cherrysoup

Marine Le Pen is historically antisemitic. She did not condemn her father for years.

www.huffingtonpost.fr/dominique-sopo/marine-le-pen-antisemitisme-vel-dhiv_a_22035438/

She has an interesting library too

FrecklesMalone · 07/04/2022 21:35

@Swayingpalmtrees

I thought we supported women leading major nations? I am sure in reality she won't be anywhere near as controversial as she says she will be, and Macron is a slimy weasel - I would do almost anything to see him turfed out.
Not if they're racist cunts.
GrumpyPanda · 07/04/2022 21:38

@LaurieFairyCake

And I want every woman of faith (any faith) or no faith to do the same if that fucker wins Angry

(Marine le Bastard is saying women are not allowed to wear head scarves in France and that they will be fined)

Why are you putting the onus on women as a group? I'd be more impressed by blokes showing some practical solidarity.
Damnedalways · 07/04/2022 21:40

Not read full thread but just wanted to say one of my best friends chose to wear a headscarf, her family discouraged her and she took it off for a while but then chose a man to marry who had similar beliefs and now she wears it all the time.
Another girl I know would say she chose it but the truth is, her family would be very disappointed and maybe even angry if she hadn't worn it, she often says her parents are so pleased with her that she 'chose' to wear it.
I also know girls who wear tiny dresses in the dead of winter on a night out even when they dont really want to because if they didn't they 'would look like a loser' (my sisters words)
Basically what I'm getting at is that there should be a choice what a woman wants to wear whether that's a headscarf or a short tight skirt and I'm sick to death of other people thinking they should get a say or that they know best or putting pressure on them

WhoWants2Know · 07/04/2022 21:41

In addition to Muslim women and Orthodox Jews, how many other women will be affected by this? Do none of you ever throw a scarf over your hair in poor weather or on a bad hair day? Women with cancer or alopecia?

onlychildhamster · 07/04/2022 21:41

Btw out of interest, does this mean that the president of Singapore can no longer visit france for fear of being fined? Or is that ok cos she has diplomatic immunity?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halimah_Yacob

She is Singapore's first female president. She wears the hijab and is the mother of 5. Before she became president, she was an MP, Speaker of the House, an ex trade unionist and also has a law degree.

In Le Pen's world, she is an oppressed woman.

Katya213 · 07/04/2022 21:41

[quote Changechangychange]@Katya213 there aren’t any nuns in France? What planet are you on, there are loads.

(And there are also plenty in the UK - just because you aren’t Catholic doesn’t mean nobody is - I mean at the very least did Derry Girls pass you by?)[/quote]
How do you know I’m not catholic?

ohleboulot · 07/04/2022 21:41

For those who have been in france since 2002 - Do you remember this when her father made it through to the second round?

Wallywobbles · 07/04/2022 21:43

@MarshaBradyo it's the more extreme ends of the spectrum that will vote for her. The extreme left and right are very much anti everything, vaccinations, masks etc. 2 sides of the same coin. They will go with the most extreme option.

Fuel is over 2€ a litre which is way more than when the gilets jaunes were protesting previously. And everyone is pretty upset about that.

Masks off was a pretty daft political sweetner.

I think @samthebordercollie has pretty much summed it up.

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