Next time I go to France I'm wearing a headscarf

[LaurieFairyCake]

And I want every woman of faith (any faith) or no faith to do the same if that fucker wins

(Marine le Bastard is saying women are not allowed to wear head scarves in France and that they will be fined)

We had rights to property, business, divorce and inheritance way before women in the so called “West” did.

That's great. Islam was ahead of its time, we all know that. But we're not comparing it to the West of 100 years ago are we? But of today.

The sheer dumbness is shown in some of these posts.....seriously people need to go and speak to Muslims not everyone is forced to wear a hijab or burka. Educate yourself please. I could argue that nuns shouldn't be allowed to wear it too or Jewish people shouldn't be allowed too. It is not just Muslim women who cover their hair. Plenty of us infant majority of us wear it because we want to. And as for someone who said men do not have to cover up not true. Men are required to cover certain parts of their body whether they choose to is up to them. The same way women choose the hijab. In 2022 people are changing their identities, gender etc but a Muslim woman wants to wear a hijab and it's an issue. Make it make sense please.

@BlackLambAndGreyFalcon

I support women's rights to wear what they choose, but I will not cover my hair myself.

No I absolutely will not wear a headscarf. I have no time for ostentatious displays of religiousity or the need to demonstrate modesty.

@Franklyfrost if you knew anything about Jewish women, you would find that a lot of orthodoxJewish women cover their heads with scarves as well. My MIL covered her head with a scarf when she was married (she wears a hat now). Yes a lot of Jewish women do choose to wear good quality wigs that look like their real hair, but whether one chooses to wear a wig or a headscarf or a snood or even a hat is a cosmetic decision! The wigs are fairly expensive while scarves and hats are much more affordable and many women prefer them.

Also not all orthodox women cover their hair but most do so. They are not forced to, it is a personal decision. I am sure it is the same for many muslim women.

@SausagePourHomme

if women feel they have to cover their hair, isn't that a problem we should be looking at?

the fact that hair can be fetishised to the point where it's seen as indecent not to wear one really bothers me.

The vast majority of muslim women in the west don't cover their hair, I would say (based on a small sample of muslim women in my community). Those who consider it a religious obligation are perfectly entitled to think that and wear it if they choose to.

Conversely, forcing somebody NOT to cover their hair is just the same as forcing them to do so, IMO.

And the kind of man who would force a woman to cover - would some men force their wives, female relatives to stay inside if she can not cover by law? How is that helping?

Until four years ago I had relatives in France. Some distant ones remain, and one was in the National Assembly so I took more interest than I do now.

From what I have read and seen of the election this time, it looks likely that Emmanuel Macron and Marine Le Pen will be in the second round. There are as noted above many reasons to dislike Emmanuel Macron, but far more reasons never to vote for Marine Le Pen. The third place candidate Jean-Luc Melachon has a manifesto that is even more of a fantasy than the British Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn.

I do think that if those not wanting to see a Le Pen presidency don't turn out to vote in the second round, there is a possibility of Macron losing.

Ok but in Iran, women must wear headscarves. Will you go there and intentionally not wear one? No, of course not, because you are afraid what they might do to punish you...be grateful you live in a Western European democracy!

@battenbergdowntheHatches except in islam you're not allowed to be forced to marry. . If a women or man doesn't consent then the marriage is invalid. And if someone has forced them they should fear Allah out creator as women have such a high status in islam to go against her rights is a big sin.

@MrsPear

It’s not just women who practice Islam though - it’s many different faiths. It wasn’t long ago that the majority wore a head covering here. I don’t get why this is an issue . If they want to tackle extremism then how about tackling the inequality and racism? How about insisting upon education for all and not allowing women and girls to disappear / it’s the same here until we stop turning a blind eye and rooting out the injustice we get no where.

It wasn’t long ago that the majority wore a head covering here

What? Imposed by religious rules on modesty?

@Swayingpalmtrees

I thought we supported women leading major nations? I am sure in reality she won't be anywhere near as controversial as she says she will be, and Macron is a slimy weasel - I would do almost anything to see him turfed out.

No we don’t support women just because they’re women. Marine le whatever’s politics are far right!!

@converseandjeans

I think France has always been a secular country - it's forbidden to wear anything religious in work or at school. So you can't wear a cross for example. Schools aren't allowed to celebrate anything religious.

www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/france-facts/secularism-and-religious-freedom-in-france-63815/article/secularism-and-religious-freedom-in-france

Not saying it's OK but the law banning wearing religious clothing goes back a while, so it's not necessarily something that has been brought in to be anti-Muslim.

I guess the issue is that the population has changed and the laws have stayed the same.

I think it will cause problems in society if Le Pen gets into power.

France is also a very Catholic country. Are nuns and priests also going to be fined for wearing religious clothing in public? No they are not. It is bigotry, pure and simple.

@Mewski

Re-reading your comment OP, shows just how truly ignorant you are. The burka is one of many awful oppressive tools of Islam. I'm sure you have had an education? Used contraception? Are allowed to leave the house without a man?

In France women are not bound by Islamic law, thankfully. Islamic law is wicked. If you want to advocate Islamic law, then by all means go to live in Afghanistan and see what happen to you.

If this is not ignorance I don’t know what is?!!!

Her father was bad enough. We don't need her adding to the problem. I know plenty of women who wear headscarves through choice, nothing to do with oppression.

The sheer dumbness is shown in some of these posts.....seriously people need to go and speak to Muslims not everyone is forced to wear a hijab or burka

Believe me, people do know that! But I'm not sure what difference it makes. Not every choice a woman makes is a good one, just because they make it freely.

Men are required to cover certain parts of their body whether they choose to is up to them.

Which parts are they supposed to cover? And what are the consequences of not doing so? Genuine question because I often see muslim men in long shorts and teeshirt whilst their wives are fully covered. I don't think I've ever seen it in reverse; a muslim woman wearing fewer clothes than her religious muslim husband. So there must be some difference of compulsion.

In 2022 people are changing their identities, gender etc but a Muslim woman wants to wear a hijab and it's an issue.

Disagreeing with one doesn't mean you agree with the other.

@EnidSpyton actually orthodox Judaism restricts the clothing choices of men. My DH was raised orthodox jewish and even though he isn't religious anymore, he still has an inclination to cover his entire body even in 30 degree celsius heat. I was in my home country with him and my aunt and mum were extremely confused why he chooses to wear socks in the house when guests are around (it was 30 degree celsius outside). my orthodox MIL is far more concerned with my DH's 'modesty' than that of her daughters (she has never commented on any of the clothing choices of her daughters openly to date), she would make little noises if he is not wearing a belt and his jeans are hanging low.

The Jewish concept of modesty applies to men as much as it does to women. aish.com/guys_and_modesty/

@dworky

All religions oppress women. Religion is borne of misogyny.

No-one has the right to tell a woman what she should or shouldn't wear!

No they don’t have the right.

Where there is no religion there is also misogyny though.

@Haj2020 Absolutely, agree 100%, people should be free to wear or not what they like.
Many Muslims choose to wear certain items of clothing, its totally their freedom to do so.
Islam is a peaceful religion, hijacked for sure but Le Pens motives and doubtless many on here in support of her, are based on Islamophobia.

@samthebordercollie have you now become a French citizen with the right to vote in this election?

Believe me, people do know that! But I'm not sure what difference it makes. Not every choice a woman makes is a good one, just because they make it freely

Oh dear, so who gets to decide what is a good or bad choice?

clearly people do not know at all nor do they care, so long as their will is imposed.

I think a lot of people don't realise the difference between religion and culture.

Middle Eastern culture is not Islam. Parts of ancient ME culture have been adopted by some followers of Islam, that doesn't make it religious in and of itself.

Le Pens motives and doubtless many on here in support of her, are based on Islamophobia.

I think you overestimate the amount of support on this thread for Le Pen. A lot of posters dislike the veil but wouldn't ban it. An entirely nuanced and reasonable position to take

I’ve lived in France for nearly 15 years; I can confirm that A) racism is a huge problem here, (not only towards but) particularly towards Muslims, far worse than I perceive in the UK, and that B) Le Pen is a vile woman. I don’t think she’ll get in but they like to put up a good fight. Yes France is secular but don’t be fooled- they collect no statistics for example on employment for religions or different ethnicities- reason being there’s no discrimination so why would you even put people in groups for a statistical survey 😑 it’s also massively sexist! There are some perks to french society and culture- gender & racial inequality not being one. x

If men and women’s bodies are the same why don’t you walk topless when you’re dropping your kids off to school in the summers heat?!!
A women’s body is different from a mans. If that is not the case, why are women models used to sell fashion items more than men and why are fashion designers all ( mostly ) male?

I think a lot of people don't realise the difference between religion and culture.

Religion is borne of culture though isn't it? You don't get the sacred texts of Abrahamic religions filled with the cultural practices of the Mayans do you?

If God existed and was all seeing, you would expect to see his knowledge of other unknown civilizations in his texts wouldn't you?

Religion is man-made and so is cultural. It may then go on separate paths from the culture that created it but they're very much linked.

Since MBS became the de facto ruler of the KSA/Saudi Arabia, it's not even required to cover, much less wear an abaya, there according to the niece who lives in Riyadh. Europe is "respecting" customs that are quickly becoming outdated in Islamic countries.