Ukraine Invasion: Part 19

[MagicFox]

Welcome friends, still going

[quote Ijsbear]A minute tiny cute thing against the dark, for whoever it was asked cat -pics a few threads back

twitter.com/StratcomCentre/status/1511936210654089217[/quote]
I feel like these sorts of pictures might feel frivolous but actually are such an important antidote to the horror. There are good people out there and sometimes we need reminded of it.

ey Takeaways

Russian forces with heavy air and artillery support continued assaults on Ukrainian positions in Mariupol in the past 24 hours.
Russian and proxy forces in eastern Ukraine are likely attempting to consolidate forces and material for an offensive in the coming days.
Russian forces continued offensive operations from Izyum towards Slovyansk but did not make any major territorial gains.
Ukrainian forces conducted successful counterattacks towards Kherson from both the north and west.
Russian forces completely vacated Sumy Oblast.
Russian General Officers are reportedly instruction commanders to severely restrict internet access among Russian personnel in an attempt to combat low morale.
The US and NATO should take a strong stance on any Russian threat to use its military forces in Transnistria, the illegally Russian-occupied strip of Moldova bordering Ukraine.

Russian General Officers are reportedly instruction commanders to severely restrict internet access among Russian personnel in an attempt to combat low morale.

This must indicate morale really is poor. I can't imagine just how they think taking away the mobiles will help more, unless soldiers really have been listening to Ukrainian appeals to desert.

In the short term Putin will have turned Russia back into 1970's as RTB said. But in the longer term I'm not sure Russia has the same capacity for social-media and information control as China. I suspect the young people will grow up and want more (assuming the next leader carries on in the dictator mold) and the same old problems will recur as led to the fall of the USSR in the first place.

On a simple google search, I found this:
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2016/11/25/a-brief-history-of-war-and-drugs-from-vikings-to-nazis which I thought was interesting. Of course as someone said upthread, these environments will attract the twisted psychopaths and I get what people have said about the very dark hazing methods used for Russian conscripts but I am curious to know if the Russian forces are provided with substances to keep them going and drive them on to do such horrific things. I’m not really sure what difference it makes to know or not. I come from a background of adddiction ( now almost 25 years clean and sober) but I remember the crucifying shame and how using/drinking more seemed like the only way to drown it out ….

Actually Igotjelly I believe that the little bits of good stuff are essential to keep going. That's not an exaggeration.

@Ijsbear

Actually Igotjelly I believe that the little bits of good stuff are essential to keep going. That's not an exaggeration.

Not sure if you thought I was being sarcastic which I wasn’t, I absolutely agree ❤️

I knew about drug use in Vietnam but not really at all in WWII

Oh no, didn't take it as sarcasm from you. On another thread I posted something nice and got a really bad response, so maybe I felt the need to justify it a bit anyway =)

Russian General Officers are reportedly instruction commanders to severely restrict internet access among Russian personnel in an attempt to combat low morale.

Cue Starlink ...

@cloudberry

I knew about drug use in Vietnam but not really at all in WWII

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0007zd5

I wonder if the images coming out of Ukraine now will result in a shift in attitudes towards refugees in future? Will seeing the harrowing images of entire villages of murdered young men make people more understanding of why the boats in the Channel are full of young men, and why their families have put every resource they have into getting their sons out? Will the 'first safe country' nonsense stop because people will finally understand that some keep running until they're as far away from the horror as they can possibly get?

I live in hope.

@Ijsbear

Actually Igotjelly I believe that the little bits of good stuff are essential to keep going. That's not an exaggeration.

Yes, completely agree. And that beautiful photo is a real contrast to the stories of Russian troops torturing domesticated animals.

(Generally speaking, the Ukrainians seem to really love their animals, and it shows in so many of the photos being shared.)

@cloudberry yes there have been reports of drunk soldiers attacking women and children as well as men. I have no doubt they are encouraged to be out if their minds.

This man and his dog...

twitter.com/kiraincongress/status/1511644588179664898?s=20&t=0yU-w-oyz6DNvM0Air0tMg

I think Starmer and Labour have an almost impossible job given we've had two years of a pandemic and now the war the Russians are waging on Ukraine. They have to be seen to support the govt in times of crisis and unless they were making a total hash of things wouldn't speak out against them for the sake of national unity. I know there are plenty of people who do think the Tories have made a hash of dealing with Covid, but no government anywhere has been perfect in response to the fast-moving situation. Plus Starmer has to try to undo the damage done by Corbyn and Momentum within Labour.

@cloudberry
I am sure you are right about the drugs.
And guilt and shame can give the “no return”
binge mindset.

But I also think there is a lurking dark underside waiting to get out.

There will be people watching war rape porn among us.

They have to be seen to support the govt in times of crisis

bollocks to that.

If the Tories were serious about unity they'd devise a coalition.

So we can safely see they aren't.

Next problem please. Let's see how quickly I can solve or explain it.

@BringBackCoffeeCreams

I wonder if the images coming out of Ukraine now will result in a shift in attitudes towards refugees in future? Will seeing the harrowing images of entire villages of murdered young men make people more understanding of why the boats in the Channel are full of young men, and why their families have put every resource they have into getting their sons out? Will the 'first safe country' nonsense stop because people will finally understand that some keep running until they're as far away from the horror as they can possibly get?

I live in hope.

I saw a yougov survey yesterday.

It said that the UK was more positive about immigrants than any other country in Europe.

Other polls I've seen in recent weeks are overwhelming supportive of refugees - with a sizable majority even in Conservative voters, who have consistently been less positive.

There has been a marked shift in attitudes to refugees and immigrants in the last year, with it more pronounced in the last month or so. In a positive direction.

These polling results I'm seeing are significantly different from ones floating about in the first half of 2016.

Things HAVE changed in the last six years.

We know that the demographics were shifting in a way which you'd expect to reflect that pattern already, but this is out pacing that and is being shaped by events. People HAVE changed their minds.

Whether this holds up, AFTER refugees start arriving and the credit crunch really sets in, is another story.

But for now at least, everything suggests that hope isn't a vain one.

It said that the UK was more positive about immigrants than any other country in Europe.

I wonder how well the anti-Polish racism that's been bubbling under these past few years has gone for the knuckle draggers ? Suddenly Farages poster looks terribly tone-deaf and dated. Much like the man himself.

@cloudberry I would expect there's a fair amount of amphetamine usage to keep the soldiers going, and that's hardly going to help them think twice before committing atrocious acts

As a non white Brit who is well travelled and lived abroad I have to agree Britain is far more welcoming and accepting than Brexit/ the papers/ some politicians/ Katie Hopkins would have us believe.
The Daily Mail etc have a lot to answer for.

Don't get me wrong we have our racists here but overall I would say is Britain is welcoming.

^www.spiegel.de/international/germany/possible-evidence-of-russian-atrocities-german-intelligence-intercepts-radio-traffic-discussing-the-murder-of-civilians-in-bucha-a-0a191c96-634f-4d07-8c5c-c4a772315b0d?sara_ecid=soci_upd_KsBF0AFjflf0DZCxpPYDCQgO1dEMph^

Seems Wagner was responsible for a lot of the atrocities, and that the original young Russian soldiers were much less so.

If put under enough pressure and perhaps direct orders I'm sure the young soldiers will also turn wantonly brutal but atm it sounds like it hasn't gone that far.

Damn Wagner :/

www.spiegel.de/international/germany/possible-evidence-of-russian-atrocities-german-intelligence-intercepts-radio-traffic-discussing-the-murder-of-civilians-in-bucha-a-0a191c96-634f-4d07-8c5c-c4a772315b0d?sara_ecid=soci_upd_KsBF0AFjflf0DZCxpPYDCQgO1dEMph

@eglantine7

Don't get me wrong we have our racists here but overall I would say is Britain is welcoming.

There is a Quantity Theory of Racism that I have just invented. It suggests that (like intelligence) there is only so much racism to go round in society. Maybe in the UK it's fairly evenly spread, rather than clumped into one section ?

(Apologies to Will Self ...)

www.reuters.com/world/europe/thousands-goods-railcars-stuck-ukraines-border-war-hits-exports-2022-04-07/

Interesting article here on grain bottlenecks, trains and logistics.