If there was a general election tomorrow and you were an ordinary woman on an average wage..

[Kreuzberg]

Who would you really vote for ? A party wishy washy on self ID and other trans issues with a gobby brash deputy leader who puts her foot in it and a lacking in charisma but well meaning leader or a party that implemented austerity, savage cuts to all public services, oversaw the deaths of 150,000, deceitful, pork barrel politics, corrupt, but with a teflon coated populist leader, plummy voiced slick mps and a less wishy washy stance on self ID (although not necessarily to be trusted)
What is most important to women earning £30,000 who are going to be hugely affected by the spiralling cost of living, struggling to heat their homes, feed their kids ? Issues very much the result of conservative policies like brexit, austerity etc or trans issues ?
I'm not pro self ID but not cat in hells chance I'd ever vote tory either. Their past record is not erased just because they say they know what a woman is. I'm addressing this to average earners too as they are on the front line.

Poor women ? Disabled women ? Women in need of legal aid ? Women in decrepit prisons ? Women unable feed their children , heat their homes ? Women unable to access refuges due to cuts ? Women fearful of crime due to poluce cuts ? Unable to access medical care promptly ?

There was a similar thread recently

A poster on it asked whether people thought it was reasonable for gay people to vote for a party with homophobic polices…

She didn’t get an answer…

Labour.
Tories have done so much harm - it outweighs the issue with Labour.

Labour because I'd rather stick my head in a deep fat fryer than legitimise Boris Johnson and Rishi "I'm just like you, but better" Sunak.

I’ve always voted Labour but until they can tell me what a woman is I won’t be again.
However I also don’t want to vote Tory, especially with Boris in charge.
I feel politically adrift at the moment.

Certainly not Labour. Angela Rayner - deputy leader....ugh ! - is a deal breaker for me.

*DancingChairs

What does Labour actually stand for? Being not-Tory?

No. But for too long Conservative have stood on At least we're not Labour. They've coasted on this for a long time. Even now, on this thread, more than a decade since the Tories came to power, we still have posters bleating well Labour would be worse.

Labour we're last in power in 2010. Number of food parcels distributed 40,898.

Tories in power for 12 years. Number of food parcels in 2021 2,537,198.

The Tories couldn't care less about women. Or children. Or struggling families.

I'll. be voting on that basis.

@CatDogMonkeyPOW

I genuinely believe that a significant portion of the posters on Mumsnet who claim that they could never vote labour because of the trans issue are either posting in bad faith (Привет) or would never vote labour anyway because they are die hard Tories.

A small minority maybe, but I find it hard to believe that the kind of people who would normally vote for labour would now vote for the corrupt and incompetent shitshow we have now just because Kier Starmer wouldn't be drawn on the issue of what is a woman.

A vote for the Tories is a vote for an massive increase in child poverty, which in turn is a vote for a massive increase in child mortality. The figures speak for themselves. Anyone who thinks that the trans issue is more important than children dying from poverty needs their head examined.

This. It's an issue..it's difficult and complex..but it's not more difficult than people choosing between eating and heating right now.

Labour we're last in power in 2010. Number of food parcels distributed 40,898.
Tories in power for 12 years. Number of food parcels in 2021 2,537,198.

Yeah but that's a success @AhNowTed because Conservative backers can now make a profit out of those food parcels and it's a guaranteed growth industry.

@CatDogMonkeyPOW

I genuinely believe that a significant portion of the posters on Mumsnet who claim that they could never vote labour because of the trans issue are either posting in bad faith (Привет) or would never vote labour anyway because they are die hard Tories.

A small minority maybe, but I find it hard to believe that the kind of people who would normally vote for labour would now vote for the corrupt and incompetent shitshow we have now just because Kier Starmer wouldn't be drawn on the issue of what is a woman.

A vote for the Tories is a vote for an massive increase in child poverty, which in turn is a vote for a massive increase in child mortality. The figures speak for themselves. Anyone who thinks that the trans issue is more important than children dying from poverty needs their head examined.

This kind of dismissal is part of the problem

It can’t be real.. they must never have voted Labour etc

I don’t believe they care about women’s rights that much

The problem grows for Labour because they lose votes by not even attempting to listen or contemplate their own failings with the electorate

It’s sad because it was once in a very good position a couple of decades ago. And I had higher hopes for Starmer initially.

@TooBigForMyBoots

Yes, and wrap them up in all the useless PPE their donors purchased with our money.

Win-win.

@Sacada why ?

💜💚💜💚 certainly not Labour. Those fuckers have sold our souls as women. I’ll be looking at all party policies before I add my X.

Labour.

@AhNowTed

"Labour: dislikes women."

What a load of nonsense.

This shower couldn't give two fucks about women.

Too busy gifting 8.7BN in dodgy PPE contract to their friends and family, and writing off 4.5BN in covid fraud.

And taking money from rich Russians.

But sure, Keir Starmer is the problem 🙄

But I think Keir Starmer is part of the problem. I've spoken in his defence in the past and I'm sure he's a nice guy but that's not what politics is about. If what you say is true, then why can't Starmer get it across? Why isn't he romping it in the polls? What we need is a labour leader who is not boringly forensic, but is capable of painting a big picture. Who can detect how the political wind is blowing and can come up with comprehensive responses that can be understood. That is capable of having a foot in two camps. Starmer will never be able to do this because he is not a natural politician. He's a dull barrister.

But of course this thread is, as is usual with these threads, just an opportunity for the OP to try and berate and emotionally blackmail people into voting Labour- because that tactic has worked so well thus far.Yaaaawwwwn

This is almost word for word the post I intended to type until I saw you beat me to it.

Tories would still win…time and time again.
Labour need to come back with attitude

I'd vote Tory, and I'd vote Tory even if Labour went full volte face and declared that women were adult human females.

I've not forgiven them for the chaos they caused last time they were in power - devaluing education, loading the NHS with PPI, selling our gold at rock bottom prices, enabling the gambling industry, the war in Iraq, bankrupting the country

Anyone who things labour is better than the Tories have very short memories.

...just anopportunity for the OP to try and berate and emotionally blackmail peopleinto voting Labour- because that tactic has worked so well thusfar.Yaaaawwwwn*

How is anyone being emotionally blackmailed? The people being forced to adapt are those with the least means. Followed by those with limited means. Then the lower/middle middle class.

The rich, multinational companies and friends of the government will be grand.

@FOJN Don't blame self imposed feelings of guilt or prickings of conscience on me. Couldn't give two hoots how folk vote.

Certainly not Labour. Angela Rayner - deputy leader....ugh ! - is a deal breaker for me
Pop your snobbery back under the sofa.

The problem grows for Labour because they lose votes by not even attempting to listen or contemplate their own failings with the electorate

This. You would have thought that losing Hartlepool would have made Labour sit up and take notice. Labour have had things handed to them on a plate the last couple of years and yet they are not even trying to be in opposition.

I probably would vote Labour but only on the basis of a golf club vs a baseball bat.

@scorpio32

I'd vote Tory, and I'd vote Tory even if Labour went full volte face and declared that women were adult human females.

I've not forgiven them for the chaos they caused last time they were in power - devaluing education, loading the NHS with PPI, selling our gold at rock bottom prices, enabling the gambling industry, the war in Iraq, bankrupting the country

Anyone who things labour is better than the Tories have very short memories.

Fantastic absence of logic here

"I'm going to vote for a criminal cartel who are running the UK into the ground RIGHT NOW, because something something something that somebody else did over a decade ago"

Jesus wept.

I'm the woman you describe OP and I would vote Labour, although I disagree with your description of Angela Rayner