If there was a general election tomorrow and you were an ordinary woman on an average wage..

[Kreuzberg]

Who would you really vote for ? A party wishy washy on self ID and other trans issues with a gobby brash deputy leader who puts her foot in it and a lacking in charisma but well meaning leader or a party that implemented austerity, savage cuts to all public services, oversaw the deaths of 150,000, deceitful, pork barrel politics, corrupt, but with a teflon coated populist leader, plummy voiced slick mps and a less wishy washy stance on self ID (although not necessarily to be trusted)
What is most important to women earning £30,000 who are going to be hugely affected by the spiralling cost of living, struggling to heat their homes, feed their kids ? Issues very much the result of conservative policies like brexit, austerity etc or trans issues ?
I'm not pro self ID but not cat in hells chance I'd ever vote tory either. Their past record is not erased just because they say they know what a woman is. I'm addressing this to average earners too as they are on the front line.

@FOJN why would you be wracked with guilt if you vote tory ? If you are satisfied with their behaviour, their record, good for you. All I can say is that for me there is a line drawn in the sand which the tories have overstepped. I have listed things that would prevent me personally from voting for the current brand. When large numbers of people are suffering because of certain policies, some of us who are politically engaged are entitled to discuss them. If you see it as 'guilt tripping' that's your problem surely.
As for the red wall, do you live there ? It's not one huge monolithic block of of northern brexit voting socially conservative working class voters who all like 'Boris'. Some of them are disappointed with the complete absence of levelling up, the empty promises, the corruption. Agree that 2019 was a big turnaround in fortunes for the tories in the north but the last 2 years have done a lot of damage to that shiny new reputation and you are actually taking us to be fools. Mirror that in the 'blue wall' and the tories have got a big fight on their hands.

@LittleWhingingWoman yes, there are undoubtedly issues that need to be addressed. But everyone is preoccupied right now with just trying to survive under this government.

I'm not comfortable with the mindset that all transwomen are predators, to me it's akin to the thought process that all Muslims are terrorists.

@MrsDThomas

In wales we already have a labour government and its no difference to a tory one.

Plaid cymru is a big no for me, so i vote independence. Our local candidate does a lot for the local community.

Yes and in fact our health and education services are worse than in England. Our local health board is currently in code black.

I vote for independents too.

Prisons, hospital wards, homeless shelters, refuges, school toilets and changing rooms (which are NOT cubicles) ...

I'm not comfortable with the mindset that all transwomen are predators

Do you think we have single sex facilities because all men are predators? Or do you think we should just have mixed sex everything?

All trans women are men, there is no evidence that transitioning makes any difference to male behaviour

Not all men are predators but some are which is why we keep men out of women and children a spaces in certain circumstances

As TW are men the same applies to them

Personally I’m not voting. I refuse to vote for any politician that is stupid enough to think someone can change sex, nasty enough to start have a go at women who point this out (hello David lammy!) or to terrified of TRA to tell the truth. If they’re this stupid & cowardly over something so fundamental as “what is a woman” why on earth would I trust them in anything

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@LittleWhingingWoman yes, there are undoubtedly issues that need to be addressed. But everyone is preoccupied right now with just trying to survive under this government.

I'm not comfortable with the mindset that all transwomen are predators, to me it's akin to the thought process that all Muslims are terrorists.[/quote]
No one is saying "all" Trans women are predators. How do you know who is and who isn't if any man is now allowed in womens intimate spaces and if self ID is encouraged so that the boundaries are broken down?
It's not a single abstract issue for me, it's one that is already affecting my ASD daughter at school where she has been harassed by transactivists telling her she is a boy and it's also an issue that potentially could affect my elderly Asian mother's intimate care in hospital.

I'm in a low earnings bracket - I don't think Labour will turn the economy around sufficiently at this point to help me even if I did go back to them. Just on this point, what do we think Labour would actually do to change anything? What support will they give poorer families? I've been a paid up member of the Labour Party for thirty years and cancelled this year.

I have no idea who I would vote for, and I am in a Tory stronghold so my vote doesn't make a jot of difference anyway.

I wont vote for the Tory party - we are a very low income family and are screwed, the DWP have taken over £500 off us in benefits over the last 4 months and the majority of that is due to their policies

I wont vote for Labour, because I think they are shit, dont know what a woman is and have been so ineffectural over the last 11 years, that I am not sure what they do

I have issues with a lot of the other parties as wel, I did vote for Lib Dem last time, but I think them sticking with their going back into the EU was madness last time, but the local candidate was really good and seemed to actually give a shit rather than the Tory MP we have now, who was so certain of his win, didn't bother campaigning in this area and helped another candidate in a different area campaign.

I would vote for Lord Buckethead, the pirate party or the Loony Party, I like the idea of having a 99p coin

Labour

I'm very close to the OP's example woman and I will vote Labour. People living in abject poverty is far more important than self-ID at the moment and the absolute shitshow Boris has made of pretty much everything he's touched makes it impossible for me to vote Conservative. And the others won't even make a dent in the other two's numbers.

Anyone that means a Tory loses a seat. There is no party I can really get behind with full confidence right now as they all have issues for various reasons but I will not do anything that helps keep boris and his corrupt cronies in power. Torys are the absolute worst option and need to be out as soon as humanly possible or we are all fucked.

Anyone but conservative.

I remember Labour as New Labour and they were worse than ineffectual: they were very effective at starting generational inequality and the shift towards an economy dependent on inherited wealth. They were Tories in another colour: everything Starmer says indicates he will go back to that. I doubt I will vote at all as no one has ever represented me.

Worse than ineffectual. Have you seen the list of positive long lasting things they achieved. MW being one of them. Something you can't accuse the tories of apart from brexit and austerity

I'd happily vote for whichever party can work out that a woman is biologically female and needs separate rights and spaces to men who choose to transition.

Its not even the principle of the self-ID issue that worries me about labour. It's the sheer amount of vitriol that has been thrown at women by Labour acolytes for having a different opinion and different needs. I grew up in a super-safe Labour seat, and even now there are men representing them who think women should sit down and shut up when men are speaking. Respect my Sex is more than about women's toilets, it's about that ingrained disrespect and distaste we're viewed with in some sections of male society unless we get our baps out in a newspaper.

My mum's local Councillor refers to local women as dogs on his open twitter feed, and has been photographed in Hitler fancy dress, and has been subject to internal investigations multiple times for various disreputable things but the old guard at Labour have kept him in. The locals will vote for a turd in a red rosette because "tories bad" and then wonder why their council is corrupt and public services are in the shitter compared to in tory seats.

And yes as someone else mentioned, why haven't Labour had a female leader yet? Their voters just spout "thatcher" every time you ask which is misogyny in itself - no-one would refuse to elect a male leader again just because of Boris!

@Kreuzberg

Worse than ineffectual. Have you seen the list of positive long lasting things they achieved. MW being one of them. Something you can't accuse the tories of apart from brexit and austerity

Positive effects like workers living in poverty propped up by state benefits paid into private landlords’ pockets you mean? Tuition fees, a shift to an economy built on debt and reliance on overseas resources and manufacture?

You need to look at economic trends over time, and recognise that at the time most commentators were complaining that there was little difference between the policies available in the dual-party system.

Well the next general election isn’t due till 2024 so maybe it’s a bit early to start backing horses. I’ll be interested to see if the Tory/Labour trans line evolves at all following local elections.

Rightly or wrongly, local elections seem somewhat different

Public service cuts started under New Labour. Before 2008 too, where I was it started 2006 and I’ve seen others echo that date. I don’t know why everyone seems so keen to forget about that… oh wait.

Most likely spoil my ballot. Again.

@ParsleySageRosemary come on. Austerity was a huge opportunity for Cameron and Osborne to implement small state ideology so beloved of conservative governments (and a universally derided experiment). Cuts to public services were savage, hit the most deprived labour areas the worst and are still going on. My town still has £40 million to lose this year. Nothing like the ones imposed by labour.

What is the actual Conservative Party policy regarding sex/gender and protecting women's sex-based rights?

I could never, ever vote Tory.

I'm also wondering if having a 'better record' is really about some members having a better record but not about party policy.

Labour or Tory - it's like asking

would you prefer to lose a leg or an arm ?

Would you prefer women chained to the sink or written out of existing?

Would you prefer money to London or London ?

Labour