Ukraine Invasion Part 18

[Ijsbear]

Place for information, discussion, points of view, useful links and above all, a hope that this sovereign land can regain its freedom.

Sorry, not sure why I put this as a reply. Sorry Peston it was only an observation on the recording.

twitter.com/mdmitri91/status/1510250575035830272

Appears that 14,00 fled, so the Russians killed the 1,000 left.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

PestorPeston
Borodyanka, 15,000 people population before 1,000 now.
twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1509977654035980295”

He does say that he has made some videos.

I wasn’t sure who you meant by ‘he’. Do you mean the soldier who was speaking to his mother also said this?

What happened to the population of Borodyanka is difficult to find. The animal shelter news sorts of obscures any other information.

The soldier said that.

He also said that he has started stammering and that he's been on the moonshine.

As the BBC reported earlier

Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova says the atrocities in Borodyanka, Kyiv Oblast, are set to overshadow those committed in Bucha.

“In terms of human casualties, the worst situation is in Borodyanka. There’s a lot to process."

Prepare for some horrific news.

@EsmaCannonball

Sorry, that should read 'disappeared into the Ukrainian populace.' I was thinking that Russian-speakers, even with Russian accents, aren't uncommon in Ukraine.

Perhaps not a good thing, but if a significant number of Russian soldiers have run away from the army, then it will be that bit harder to regroup and go again in the Donbas.

The translation missed out some verbal abuse as well.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

“The soldier said that.

He also said that he has started stammering and that he's been on the moonshine.”

Thanks for your answer. I am sorry - I had missed the translated transcript before. It is all clear now.

They should have been called out more and more action taken over their war crimes in Syria and I’m assuming Georgia and other places. But they weren’t only now are people waking up with the situation in Ukraine it’s a repeat of everywhere they go. Is it more noticeable because of who they doing it against (I hope not but I think it plays a part) or maybe Russia have relied on countries in the past not having the latest technology in terms of smart phones and social media. The way information gets out has changed it’s not like it was before and maybe Russia haven’t adapted to this and just go for denial as they have been caught off guard with this way of documenting and reporting. Previously this may have been hearsay but now people can take photos of evidence and get it out within minutes if they want to.

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@ChardonnaysPetDragon

“The soldier said that.

He also said that he has started stammering and that he's been on the moonshine.”

Thanks for your answer. I am sorry - I had missed the translated transcript before. It is all clear now.[/quote]
The transcript is not complete.

Hang on, it is complete, but not always true to the original. It's small details though.

Seeing as Russian gas continues to flow to Europe can we assume that Putin’s threat tk cut it off it countries don’t pay in Rubles was bullshit?

So...
How come we've gone into Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc but not Ukraine? I get all the nato/diplomatic stuff and go down those routes first but

Now we see what's happening and shit, it's the tip of the iceberg and on our doorstep. So tell me again, why Iraq, Afghanistan and not Ukraine?

NATO reason is an excuse. At the moment nato is as good as tits on a bull and we could form a separate alliance

Sorry but I am so angry. This is humanity not borders

Tiddy. Nuclear war.

It's his nuclear threat.
Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan was thought to have ready to go nuke's that could hit far flung places.

I'd like to know more About Nuclear site safety and why forces can't go onto secure the sites now after clearly atrocious wreclessness

P*aper
*
I know but you cannot appease someone like Putin. Call his bluff. Would he really want to see his beloved motherland destroyed, and in his name?

I don't think so. He's playing the west like a fiddle.

I could be wrong of course, but I don't think so.

@Igotjelly

Seeing as Russian gas continues to flow to Europe can we assume that Putin’s threat tk cut it off it countries don’t pay in Rubles was bullshit?

Those deliveries have been paid long ago.

Tiddy I agree, I think this response is a huge catastrophe, watching his troops build up,all the Will he won't he etc.

I think some sort of peace keeping force should have gone in before he invaded.
It's all too late now.
When this first happened we didn't know what Putins state of mind was the long table, pictures of him alone etc
I don't feel now he is so cut off and less likely to kill us all with nuke's.

There was no plan it Seems to deal with Putin.

So if the rest of Europe follows Lithuanias lead and cuts off the gas and the billions paying for that abhorrent war machine, what would that mean?

We'd have to sufffer a bit with no heating? The economies will suffer? Of course. It'll be awful. Would I do it to save Ukraine. Absolutely

@TiddyTidTwo Not just nuclear but the wider spread of conventional war, Russia still has the capacity to launch plenty of non nuclear missiles at pretty much any European capitol, would we retaliate and bomb Russian civilian cities?

Can we be sure Russia would not retaliate with WMD ? then what would we do?

However, we have been far too slow to arm the Ukrainians with offensive weapons and missile systems & even now, we procrastinate.... throwing out Russian diplomates should have been done weeks ago.

Zelenskyy told us what he needed and what would happen if we didn't do it.

@TiddyTidTwo

So... How come we've gone into Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc but not Ukraine? I get all the nato/diplomatic stuff and go down those routes first but

Now we see what's happening and shit, it's the tip of the iceberg and on our doorstep. So tell me again, why Iraq, Afghanistan and not Ukraine?

NATO reason is an excuse. At the moment nato is as good as tits on a bull and we could form a separate alliance

Sorry but I am so angry. This is humanity not borders

I know, I totally agree. It’s ridiculous. Are we going to all freeze and look on every time someone says “nuke” now? Because everyone will just get nuclear weapons if that’s the case. It’s sending a very dangerous message to other leaders out there who may be thinking along the same lines as Putin.

Dealing with it after the fact (going after war criminals, rebuilding etc) rather than stopping further atrocities is disgusting.

What the Russian’s are doing is obviously horrific. But I’m very aware of the evil in the world. It’s everyone else seeing - almost in real time - that these rapes, tortures, and executions are happening and not intervening properly and effectively that is really affecting me.

Yeah but China, India and Pakistan wouldn't.

Given the way that the Russian troops have behaved I do wonder if NATO will step in now.

I also think that Hungary should be ejected from the EU now.

I agree about the gas but I don't fancy "calling his bluff" thanks

@TiddyTidTwo

So if the rest of Europe follows Lithuanias lead and cuts off the gas and the billions paying for that abhorrent war machine, what would that mean?

We'd have to sufffer a bit with no heating? The economies will suffer? Of course. It'll be awful. Would I do it to save Ukraine. Absolutely

Good for you.

There are millions of people who wouldn't though. It their heat, jobs, health service, the whole economy.

I wouldn't want to do it. Sorry.

I have to say that we ~knew~ what the Russian soldiers would do.

The evidence has been there in Chechnya and Syria.

I remember the women who organised the theatre siege in Moscow and the terrible Beslan siege where 180 children died. What they did was unforgiveable but people do not act like that against children unless they are devoid of all hope and have lost everything. The information was there, then.

Putin used those two things to tighten his grip, btw.