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Original poster

Ukraine Invasion Part 18

999 replies

Ijsbear · 02/04/2022 14:10

Place for information, discussion, points of view, useful links and above all, a hope that this sovereign land can regain its freedom.

OP posts:
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15
DGRossetti · 04/04/2022 14:13

I do think he’s conspicuous by his absence. Assuming the US are trying to work out how best to walk this particular tightrope.

Is looking for how to make money out of a war the same as walking a tightrope ?

TiddyTidTwo · 04/04/2022 14:13

Zelenksyy visits scenes in Bucha. His face says it all

Ukraine Invasion Part 18
shreddednips · 04/04/2022 14:17

@TargusEasting I do think there may well be an element of China seeing benefits in Russia exhausting its military resources in Ukraine. If it assesses (probably correctly) that it won't fall foul of western sanctions as long as it doesn't provide military and economic bailouts, then China does very well out of Russia's economic and military degradation. It's left with Russia as a vulnerable junior partner in the friendship and hugely reliant on China. I wonder if this scenario could potentially afford favourable access to resources in places like Siberia- Russia will have little choice but to accept whatever trade options China offers.

Conversely, I don't think a swift Russian victory would have been great for China. That would have made Russia more powerful, less reliant and less easy to keep control of.

Meanwhile, China maintains its lucrative economic ties to the west. This is why I don't think China will change its position in either direction- toeing the line with both sides allows it to keep what it has while eventually gaining increased control over Russia. I would hope that the absolutely appalling actions of the Russian army in Bucha and elsewhere might sway the Chinese government's opinion, but I'm not holding my breath.

Igotjelly · 04/04/2022 14:19

@DGRossetti

I do think he’s conspicuous by his absence. Assuming the US are trying to work out how best to walk this particular tightrope.

Is looking for how to make money out of a war the same as walking a tightrope ?

Well indeed.
BringBackCoffeeCreams · 04/04/2022 14:22

If they are allowed for then by definition they aren't crimes.

Exactly. That was what I was trying to say. We say war crimes, they're laying the groundworks to say justifiable reprisals.

Alexandra2001 · 04/04/2022 14:25

Not really sure what anyone expects Biden to do? i would hope to see a considered response, rather than the normal but ultimately useless, condemnation.

Before the usual criticism of the USA, its European actions (or lack of) that emboldened Putin, its the USA that has 100,000 troops in Europe, plus the naval and air power, guaranteeing Putin wont attack us & its the USA which is by far providing the bulk of all the Aid going to the region and Ukraine.

As for war crimes etc etc Unless there is a dramatic change of Government in Russia, few if any are ever going to be put on trial for any of this..

Original poster
Ijsbear · 04/04/2022 14:26

Oh dear - but how is Biden making money out of this war? (him not Hunter)

Biden comes over to me as less showy than Trump, more heart, more inclined to get on with it and also more inclined to put his foot in it, all of which means a lower profile is a good idea.

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 04/04/2022 14:29

Kaitlan Collins @kaitlancollins
U.S. ambassador to the U.N. is going to call for Russia to be suspended from the Human Rights Council, per her spokesperson.

At the conclusion of her trip to Moldova & Romania, @USAmbUN Linda Thomas-Greenfield addressed press on Russia’s latest attacks: “I am returning to New York to do two things. One: I will take this to the Security Council tomorrow morning and address Russia’s actions directly.”
“Two: In close coordination with Ukraine, European countries and other partners at the UN, we are going to seek Russia’s suspension from the UN Human Rights Council.”
“Russia’s participation on the Human Rights Council is a farce. It hurts the credibility of the Council and the UN writ large. And it is wrong, which is why we believe it is time the UN General Assembly vote to suspend them.”

DGRossetti · 04/04/2022 14:31

Oh dear - but how is Biden making money out of this war?

Not him personally. The people that work the machine that put him there.

littledrummergirl · 04/04/2022 14:34

I hope that whoever told the Russians no to the emergency meeting used the words "are you having a fucking laugh?"

If the Russians don't want to be accused of war crimes in another country then don't invade that country, don't commit war crimes and don't think the rest of the world is fucking stupid.

Original poster
Ijsbear · 04/04/2022 14:48

I'm distinctly afraid that Russian propaganda in Africa and the Middle East might well be effective though. Possibly South America too

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 04/04/2022 14:50

@Ijsbear

I'm distinctly afraid that Russian propaganda in Africa and the Middle East might well be effective though. Possibly South America too
Well if their propaganda consists of a litany of the behaviour of the Imperial powers these past 150 years ....
DuncinToffee · 04/04/2022 15:11

Lithuanian Foreign Minister says that his government has asked Russia’s Ambassador to leave Lithuania.

TiddyTidTwo · 04/04/2022 15:13

I do think he’s conspicuous by his absence. Assuming the US are trying to work out how best to walk this particular tightrope

I think this too. Could I be hoping too much that something which could potentially stop Putin in his tracks is coming??

CailleachGranda · 04/04/2022 15:17

@Ijsbear

I'm distinctly afraid that Russian propaganda in Africa and the Middle East might well be effective though. Possibly South America too
Well on Twitter that seems to be where a lot of the pro Russian stuff is coming from
TiddyTidTwo · 04/04/2022 15:18

Breaking: Lithuania downgrades diplomatic ties with Russia, expels ambassador over "horrific massacre" in Ukraine's #Bucha

K4fkaesque · 04/04/2022 15:19

@Ijsbear

I'm distinctly afraid that Russian propaganda in Africa and the Middle East might well be effective though. Possibly South America too
Not only there but China, India and Pakistan too. At least as an excuse for staying "Neutral".
Igotjelly · 04/04/2022 15:20

@TiddyTidTwo

Breaking: Lithuania downgrades diplomatic ties with Russia, expels ambassador over "horrific massacre" in Ukraine's #Bucha
Good for them!
PerkingFaintly · 04/04/2022 15:21

If that litany of the behaviour of imperial powers includes the behaviour of the Russian empire over the centuries, then fair does.

I agree that Russia is putting out a huge amount of noise about the Evil Empires who aren't itself, and this may be very effective. However in reality, from Stalin's actions, through the proxy wars in Africa, to Putin's involvement in Syria, the Russian empire has huge atrocities to its account.

Igotjelly · 04/04/2022 15:22

Sky News reporting that evacuation buses have once again been unable to reach Mariupol 😭 of course now the automatic assumption is that’s because the Russians want to buy time to hide mass rape and murder of civilians.

WeAreTheHeroes · 04/04/2022 15:24

Biden more inclined to put his foot it in than Trump? Inclined rather than likely? I think Biden said what he really thought about Putin. Not sure it was a bad thing to say. Trump was the very antithesis of a statesman. He'd have been a liability in this mess.

DuncinToffee · 04/04/2022 15:26

BBC

EU ready to send war crimes investigators to Ukraine
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen says the EU is ready to send joint investigations teams to Ukraine to document reported war crimes.

She has tweeted after speaking to Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky, she says, about "the atrocious murder of civilians in Bucha and elsewhere in Ukraine".

The teams would be in coordination with Ukraine's prosecutor general, with support from the European police agency Europol and criminal justice agency Eurojust.

DuncinToffee · 04/04/2022 15:28

BBC

UK considering action against Russian soldiers

Senior government sources have told the BBC that the UK government is considering further action against Russian soldiers themselves.

It's understood this could include sanctions - but also looking at ways to hold them legally accountable - for what the prime minister has described as evidence of war crimes in Ukraine.

Officials are looking at measures that could target captains, majors and colonels in the Russian military.

WeAreTheHeroes · 04/04/2022 15:29

The US wants to be seen to be supporting it's European allies. It doesn't want to be drawn into a war with Russia which would inevitably become a US:Russian war.

Everyone apart from the aggressor is walking a tightrope.

TargusEasting · 04/04/2022 15:37

Biden more inclined to put his foot it in than Trump?

Trump would have brought all his skills to the fore. He would have gone into Nambia no messing, as people, many, many people are saying. They are saying, it would have been beautiful. Those hombres would have been almost not been there bigly time.