Ukraine Invasion Part 18

[Ijsbear]

Place for information, discussion, points of view, useful links and above all, a hope that this sovereign land can regain its freedom.

Yes, the victim complex, ScrollingLeaves. That always seems a particularly dangerous attribute in a dictator, doesn't it?

Michael Brodsky visited Drobytsky Yar, a place where 20,000 Jews were killed by the Nazis during 1941-42
There are meant to be about 400,000 Jews in Ukraine, I'm sure the Russian soldiers are working towards matching that number, plus potentially 100,000s other Ukrainians.
Israel does not give a flying fuck.
I do blame Russia, I do blame Putin and quite soon I will also start blaming the Israeli Foreign Minister.

Have you read forensic pathologist Susan Black's book?

I've read quite a few forensic and pathological books in my time (and DW wanted to be a pathologist until the MS struck) but not that one.

I've also read quite a few books on various wars, the Nazis, and atrocities in general. Really it's amazing I am as cheerful and guileless as I am.

I think the biggest problem the Ukrainians have right now is not a lack of planes, guns, tanks or anything else. Their biggest problem is not enough people have done that reading in the West. Because - even 5 weeks in - I don't think some people are quite getting it.

I would happily subscribe to anyone who stated that a cloud of evil is drifting to the west. I don't like such unscientific terms, but if anyone else feels they can describe it better, then they are more than welcome.

@notimagain

"Yep the West needs to give anti ship missiles to protect Odesa, planes via Poland and advanced anti aircraft to protect the skies.

Nice generic shopping list, looks good on paper.

Dare I ask what exact systems are people thinking of that the Ukrainians can operate straight out of the box or (given time is of the essence) at the very least with minimal retraining?

Ukrainians are already using some advanced anti aircraft, so training outside of Ukraine can be done, the people who normally operate these systems aren't IT professionals, manufacturers generally speaking, make these systems relatively easy to operate (i got this from my cousin who did 18 years in the RM's and our best friends whose DH was 12 years in 3 Para) Plus we would be training people who already operate various missile systems, not totally untrained folk

OR we do nothing nothing "because its all too difficult" and Odesa turns into the next Mariupol, the next few weeks are going to happen & we can chat about how awful it all is and its pity we didn't give them better weapons earlier.......

This is what the nazis did to the jews in concentration camps.

twitter.com/Mariia_Zolkina/status/1510323171815264258

More - this poor woman how do you ever every get over something like this:

twitter.com/AnnaMyroniuk/status/1510524144349327360

shaving their heads?

What a truly petty action. Not going to diminish the women's pride one bit.

@Ijsbear
Re attachment theory
The first two years are deeply important - deeply- but what comes after also has a considerable influence

Yes I am sure and it is the following years that beatings, domestic abuse, sexual abuse etc happen.

Yes.

But if something turns around, well, to quote @GingerWarthog's post

Gingerwarthog Sun 03-Apr-22 16:59:16

Re: trauma and young refugees.
There is also increasing evidence (re attachment and trauma) that having just one stable, caring, committed adult in your life can offset some of the damage previously done

Would recommend PP's Sue Black books.

She's amazing. I'd hoped that she'd never have to piece people's stories together from their remains again.

@Gingerwarthog

”Re: trauma and young refugees.
There is also increasing evidence (re attachment and trauma) that having just one stable, caring, committed adult in your life can offset some of the damage previously done.“

Yes, Alice Miller describes the role of a ‘sympathetic witness’ as being what makes the difference to a traumatised child, which is similar to what you say.

they are amazing, just .. be warned that some stories are upsetting.

Blinken will meet with other NATO leaders in Brussels April 5-7

Ukrainians are already using some advanced anti aircraft, so training outside of Ukraine can be done, the people who normally operate these systems aren't IT professionals, manufacturers generally speaking, make these systems relatively easy to operate (i got this from my cousin who did 18 years in the RM's and our best friends whose DH was 12 years in 3 Para) Plus we would be training people who already operate various missile systems, not totally untrained folk

Fair enough, here's my POV after a couple of decades in HM Forces in a very much technical role, which for a while included training other people.

Give the Ukranians S300s with the same modification state/upgrade state as they have now and as long as they can integrate it with the rest of the air defence system they might well be OK on day one.

Anti-ship missiles - I'll leave to somebody else..

Fighters - supplying generic "MiGs" etc simply won't cut it...

You'd need to deliver an exact clone of whatever the Ukranians have in their Orbat right now, right down to weapons compatibility, cockpit layout and avionics fit if you are expecting Ukrainian pilots to jump straight in and fly combat sorties...if you can't produce a exact match you are either looking at months of retraining to get close to being combat effective in contested skies or your loss rate will be even more horrific than it probably has been.

FWIW handing over western tanks get a mention sometimes, so I'll stick this link in, it addresses not just tanks but the whole idea that the west can just chuck load of kit at the Ukrainians and thinking that's job done:

twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1510341553520361472?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1510341553520361472%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

[quote BBCONEANDTWO]This is what the nazis did to the jews in concentration camps.

twitter.com/Mariia_Zolkina/status/1510323171815264258[/quote]
And - for balance - the French to (suspected) collaborators

And - for balance - the French to (suspected) collaborators

As did the Dutch.

Now days we have had GI Jane/ breast cancer treatment and a woman shaving her head is a badge of honour / defiance

Boris Ruge @RugeBoris
After #Bucha: Vice Chancellor Habeck & Foreign Minister Baerbock (Greens) come out in favor of ramping up #sanctions against Russia. Chancellor Scholz & SPD also ready for new measures, with MinDef Lambrecht specifically talking about sanctioning gas imports

Well good.

Pity it's taken war crimes to get them moving.

from Kyiv Independent kyivindependent.com/tag/russias-war/

Stoltenberg: Finland, Sweden are 'very much welcome' to join NATO.

The alliance’s chief Jens Stoltenberg told CNN that if these countries decide to become members, NATO will find a way to admit them in a relatively quick way.

how helpful of Putin to encourage people to join NATO.

This (assuming it's accurate) is pretty big.

Nathan Ruser @Nrg8000
April 2nd satellite imagery of Kherson shows that the graves I've mentioned before (twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1498683814134136849) ^are still being dug. Since the beginning of this invasion, ~824 grave plots have been dug in Kherson Cemetery.
Given what we know about Bucha this is very concerning^

We can look at high-resolution imagery from 2021 and see that each row of graves here contains 26 individual graves, with the smaller row on the end containing 10 graves. This totals 824 graves over ~2,500m of newly dug rows.

Of these ~824 grave plots that have been dug, it looks as though approximately 300 of them have been filled in, while the others remain open. Hard to say this with as much confidence with the resolution, but this should be broadly correct.

@PestorPeston

Now days we have had GI Jane/ breast cancer treatment and a woman shaving her head is a badge of honour / defiance

Some of us recall Star Trek: The Motion Picture ...

I haven't read any of those sorts of books, because unfortunately I can only too well imagine. I can't look at the reports/tweets coming out either - reading the reactions of posters here tells me all I need to know. That 'cloud of evil' has been pushing into my consciousness for almost 6 weeks now and I understand it for what it is. There is hell on earth in Ukraine, and Mr Putin knows exactly what he's doing, I'm afraid. That tweet from Berlin, about their fears that they don't have enough resources for such a steady stream of people fleeing the violence, is inevitable. Another plank in Putin's strategy to destabilise the West and get us wound up enough to take him on. His own people, by all accounts, (on the whole) see major escalation as almost inevitable and worth the 'existential' risk.

Please correct me if I've understood that wrong.

BNO News @BNONews
BREAKING: German food retailers to raise prices by 20-50% on Monday, says German Retail Association

BNO News @BNONews
MORE: Meat and butter will be “significantly more expensive” at German Aldi from Monday - The Local
www.thelocal.de/20220401/german-consumers-to-be-hit-by-further-price-hikes-in-supermarkets/

EMPR.MEDIA @EuromaidanPR
80% of #Chernihiv is destroyed. The russians blew up bridges. There are many killed and wounded civilians.
The #Ukrainian Army/Police are using pontoon bridges for the evacuation.
A special group is also working there, noting down all #Russia's made atrocities.

Suspect we will start hearing some dreadful stuff from Chernihiv soon then.