Govt extending school day by a few minutes in ignorance of how schools work

[noblegiraffe]

The government have decided to mandate a minimum 32.5 hour week for schools - the equivalent of being open from 8:45 to 3:15

This is not a specified teaching time, but opening time. Schools who are under will have to find ways to tack extra time onto the teaching day, perhaps by making lunchtime longer or adding an extra break. A school that has, for example, 20 minutes form time, 5 hours of lessons, 20 minutes of break and 40 minutes of lunch is not open long enough. One that has the same arrangement but 50 minutes lunch is fine.

Why? Fuck knows. What they have once again completely failed to do is consult schools about why their opening hours are as they are. Schools in my area, for example, have finely co-ordinated finishing times to avoid massive congestion. Schools who are under would have to consider opening earlier which will mess up buses, and screw those with childcare commitments. It's going to be logistically challenging to arrange, but of course, it won't be the DfE doing it.

schoolsweek.co.uk/schools-asked-to-offer-32-5-hour-week-by-2023-and-ofsted-will-check/

4 x 8:45-3:15

As has probably been pointed out, this is a classic case of the government wanting to appear to do something. It also costs them nothing. For the most part, doesn't change what goes on in most schools.

And when it does change stuff, it fucks things up.

Those schools who close Friday afternoon - does the government think that simply telling them they need to stay open will fix the problems that meant they had to close early in the first place? If that’s what they want to address, talk to those schools?

Do the DC who go to schools that finish at lunchtime collect their siblings from other schools that finish at 3 pm? Life was so much easier when schools started and finished at more or less the same time but according to phase m. So secondary did more hours and had linger days then primary.

Where did you get schools finishing at lunchtime from?

There’s a small minority of schools who, for funding reasons, teach a half day on Friday,

@Lambsandchicks

I ‘saw’ your expression then!

😂 And their ECT induction is appalling.

I went to school in Sweden where younger children have school from around 8.00 - 12.30 / 13.30 (depending on the day of the week and your school’s schedule) and teenagers typically have 8.30 - anywhere between 13.00 and 16.30 (depending on the day of the week and your school’s schedule). The difference is that an extraordinary amount of funding is provided for schools to run high quality childcare too, so there is (basically) free childcare 7.00-18.00 for under 12s but it’s not run by teachers. English people seem to want something for nothing on this issue and are angry when schools won’t arrange it so that individual teachers do 2 people’s jobs each for free. If you want a convenient, parent-focussed system then pay for it!

If Kevan Collins is against, then I suspect it is a plan that is utterly sensible.

This is the man who wanted our children out of school for as long as possible during covid and cared not a joy about the consequences for vulnerable children.

I hear this is a guideline , which schools that are failing elsewhere, will be asked to address. I am also aware that the NEU is the only union not to engage positively with the process.

I found out that my school had done a parental consultation after it had closed, withno response. Which meant we were all happy with Friday afternoon closures, rather than no one knew about or could find the consultation!

@noblegiraffe
You’d post at 23.46 yesterday. I can assure you that parents do think closure means when DC walk out and lessons cease.

Yes but you said ‘schools that finish at lunchtime’ and talked about those pupils picking up siblings as if it were a daily occurrence.

Which schools finish daily at lunchtime?

Our schools are 8.30 to 3.45!

Think you have muddled up Sir Kevan Collins with someone else, mellon

@thewknd

It sounds sensible to me. The school days are much longer in Asia etc. Locally the kids are leaving at 2 or 2:30 some days. The staff carpark is empty by 4. Staff go on about all the work they have to do from home but if they stayed at work til 6 like the rest of us then they'd have their evenings free!

Hilarious. You know so little.

Our school is arrive by 8.55 to start at 9 then finishes at 3. So they are under the 32.5 hours but have an amazing range of after school activities which most kids do a few times a week. I’m not sure if this means they will be pressured into adding 30 mins to the school day.

Living I would far rather a school dod this but I suspec that counts as under.

For contrast ours is 8.15 for 8.25 - 3.10!!!! Id far rather an extra 30mins of fun activity.

Our school also extrended the day 45mins more to make up for covid for quite a few months (i refused.)

Gah can't type.

@noblegiraffe
Toh talked about siblings being picked up and arrangements being messed up by extending a school day by a few minutes. I merely enquired how that worked on finish early Fridays. That’s all. It must be that sibling care isn’t prioritised on Fridays.

There’s also plenty of evidence that teens don’t function so well until about 10am. I would shift the whole school day. Anyone starting at 8.15 is too early. Homework clubs from 9-10 am. Keven Collins did get it right.

Tizer I don’t think anyone has ever argued that the schools closing at lunchtime on Fridays were doing so for any other reason than lack of funding.

No one supports those closures. If the govt wants to stop those schools from closing so early, it needs to engage with them on their funding issues.

This is an interesting article about a school that introduced early friday for finance reasons (and I genuinely don't think most poster/parents realise how much of an effect on children these issues cause. It's not "teachers wanting to be paid more" but cutting back on teachers/specialists/help for children.)

They have found it very beneficial. However part of the argument is that teachers get to stay with their class rather than the now common half day/day hlta (not legal when I first started teaching and now has become the norm!)

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/closing-early-every-friday-improved-15836502

@noblegiraffe

Think you have muddled up Sir Kevan Collins with someone else, mellon

That is entirely possible!

My point stands about the role of the NEU in the debate though.

Also seems to think that better teacher = grammar school or private. That teaching in a state comp is a consolation prize rather than an active choice.

I teach in a private school and am categorically NOT a better teacher than those I worked with in the state sector. I simply prefer smaller classes and longer required hours (while extra lesson time is offset by longer holidays, our school has clubs as part of the contract).

Extending "the school day" will not improve education unless extra teaching time (and therefore funding for teachers) or provision of extra-curriculars (and therefore funding for providers) is mandatory too. Even just adding time to the lunch / break requires funding (because lunchtime supervisors are paid by the hour).

Unpicking your statement further, do you genuinely think that better university = better teacher? If so, you are mistaken.

This reminds me a bit of a random program I watched about 10 years ago that everyone seems to have forgotten about or erased from their minds. Jamie Oliver had this silly and naive although I’m sure well meaning idea (that’s Jamie Oliver in a nutshell really) of creating a perfect school for teens who were disenchanted with school. He got some very clever people who were experts in their fields to teach the kids - the likes of Mary Beard and David Starky and, awkward, Rolf Harris among others. It was chaos and pretty cringeworthy to watch. Being clever and highly educated does not make you the best teacher, not even a remotely good one. Unless they have some kind of exceptional, specialist teacher training course at Oxbridge, which includes some kind of amazing degree in child psychology on the side with intense behaviour training and a special certificate in outstanding general people’s skills (I’ve not heard of it) it’s really not going to help. There’s more to being a teacher, much more, than being knowledgeable about your subject.

@TizerorFizz
Any comments on your theories about Oxbridge graduates and better schools? Or have you realised that was complete crap.

It’s not. See stats attached.