Govt extending school day by a few minutes in ignorance of how schools work

[noblegiraffe]

The government have decided to mandate a minimum 32.5 hour week for schools - the equivalent of being open from 8:45 to 3:15

This is not a specified teaching time, but opening time. Schools who are under will have to find ways to tack extra time onto the teaching day, perhaps by making lunchtime longer or adding an extra break. A school that has, for example, 20 minutes form time, 5 hours of lessons, 20 minutes of break and 40 minutes of lunch is not open long enough. One that has the same arrangement but 50 minutes lunch is fine.

Why? Fuck knows. What they have once again completely failed to do is consult schools about why their opening hours are as they are. Schools in my area, for example, have finely co-ordinated finishing times to avoid massive congestion. Schools who are under would have to consider opening earlier which will mess up buses, and screw those with childcare commitments. It's going to be logistically challenging to arrange, but of course, it won't be the DfE doing it.

schoolsweek.co.uk/schools-asked-to-offer-32-5-hour-week-by-2023-and-ofsted-will-check/

@forcedfun

It sounds like a sensible plan to me.

Why?

It’s teaching time that counts and then enough time for sports and activities. I’m not sure which government got rid of teaching time requirements but that was a mistake. When schools open makes little odds to most. Start later and finish later? Start early and finish earlier? Just teach a minimum number of hours (used to be 25 a week) and everyone is happy.

Short lunch breaks are introduced for crowd control and behaviour issues. If schools really wanted to educate DC, they would provide more opportunities for sport and clubs. Keven Collins wanted this and he was right. Of course no money was forthcoming but the intent was good. It’s not really about traffic jams. It’s about breadth and quality of education snd opportunity, especially in deprived areas. But more money and higher ambition is needed.

the equivalent of being open from 8:45 to 3:15

That’s still an hour and a half less than my school day was.

It’s not really about traffic jams. It’s about breadth and quality of education snd opportunity, especially in deprived areas.

How will adding on an extra 5 minutes to lunchtime (say) improve breadth and quality of education?

Sir Kevan Collins didn't want this, he wanted an extra hour at the end of the school day for enrichment.

My secondary school finished at 1pm every Friday, I thought that was a good thing.

This is all about the government making headlines - Look, We Are Doing Something - without actually assessing whether what they're doing improves things in real life. True to form. If you want change, stop voting for them.

We’re going to be 1hr 40 minutes short. We have short breaks to minimise issues at breaks - it works for our context.
My best guess is we’ll just make the afternoon break longer, or make the clubs that run for 50 minutes each day after school mandatory. Can’t see us changing from our 6 lessons a day.

When I was at school, we had a school day that stretched from 8.50 to 3.45. That included 6 × 45 min lessons, so 4.5 hours of teaching time in total. The rest was eaten up by 2 registration periods, break times, lunch times etc.

My dd's school runs from 8.30 to 2.50. That includes 5 x 60 min lessons, so 5 hours of teaching time in total. They only have one registration period in a day and a much shorter lunchtime.

The first of these patterns would be compliant with the government's new requirements whereas the second wouldn't, even though the second allows for more teaching time in total. That makes no sense to me.

I used to really resent the long lunch breaks when I was a kid, and I desperately wished that they would cut them down so that we could all go home earlier.

Our secondary is 8.35am till 3.20pm. They extended the day and now include "wellness" time which is tutor led lessons focusing on working through the trauma of covid taking their freedom away.

Given the neglect children have suffered in their schooling over the last 2 years with calls for closed schools, part time schooling and/or online schooling I for one am glad our school is stepping up the the plate and recognising the need for this extra care and how the schools previous behaviours have affected so many of their students.

@forcedfun Which bit of it sounds sensible?

Anyone who thinks this idea is sensible has clearly never worked alongside or in a school. Timings are well oiled and decided for many reasons none of which have been considered.

Tacking an extra 10 minutes onto playtime will do nothing to improve a child's educational outcomes. This is very clearly being implemented just so the government can say they have done something.

Would you still be happy if your primary child could be no longer picked up from school because your older child was now having ten minutes extra at lunch?

Not sure this adds much to the debate, but shocked that Secondary schools near me start at 8.15 and finish at 2:45!

My school hours used to be 8.15 - 4 pm.

@Nidan2Sandan

Our secondary is 8.35am till 3.20pm. They extended the day and now include "wellness" time which is tutor led lessons focusing on working through the trauma of covid taking their freedom away.

Given the neglect children have suffered in their schooling over the last 2 years with calls for closed schools, part time schooling and/or online schooling I for one am glad our school is stepping up the the plate and recognising the need for this extra care and how the schools previous behaviours have affected so many of their students.

DD's school is doing this. The car full of teenagers who I take to school in the mornings clearly don't find these "wellness" activities useful. They just feel a bit sorry for the teachers having to deliver them because they think it's clearly a tick box exercise. Maybe your school is doing it better.

We would need to add 25 minutes! We have 3 lunches at the moment because we have too many students to do it over 2 and the work to extend the canteen was cancelled by the local authority, I don’t see how we could add the time then without overlapping lessons.
We could add 10 minutes to tutor time but any longer would be too long.
We already do breakfast club and extra curricular, adding extra time to the day just means my lessons will be a lower standard because I already do all of my marking and planning on an evening, I’m not willing to work later in my own time because I want a work life balance

I agree with above. Thise saying it sounds sensible - what exactly? How will an extra 5-10 minutes a day in a school help? Particularly in an area where start and finish times have been cooridnated with local schools so the extra time means svcools finishing at the same time?

Its on of thise attention seeling headlines that dont improve anything but will make life difficult for others.

Independent school times are irrelevant - partly because they havelonger holidays, longer lunch and the obvious - more funding so more teachers/smaller classes etc which is the thing that would help in state schools now.

As a teacher I'd love a longer lunch break! Would do wonders for my well being. Not sure how I feel about the longer time for kids to cause shit on the playground....and longer duty times!!

I think it makes more sense than having a set number of days a year, but it should be a number of hours of teaching / learning and I think it should be over the year.

There should also be flexibility in the system to allow schools to work with their students and communities.

Ds’s former primary is already doing the equivalent of these hours. Her former secondary was doing 8.45 to 3.10. She’s now in the independent sector so hours and holidays are longer. Idk if they’re affected by these minimum hours.

@ItsYabbaDabbaDoTime

Not sure this adds much to the debate, but shocked that Secondary schools near me start at 8.15 and finish at 2:45!

My school hours used to be 8.15 - 4 pm.

I’m mostly confused about when schools started ending so early. My state primary was 08:30 to 3:30. My kids primary is 9-3. How have we lost a full hour per day?

School (state comp) was always 8:50 - 15:50 back in the 70s.
8 x 40min periods - 2 periods, break, 2 periods, lunch, 2 break, 2 home.
It seemed less rushed than the school day is today.

@Nidan2Sandan

Our secondary is 8.35am till 3.20pm. They extended the day and now include "wellness" time which is tutor led lessons focusing on working through the trauma of covid taking their freedom away.

Given the neglect children have suffered in their schooling over the last 2 years with calls for closed schools, part time schooling and/or online schooling I for one am glad our school is stepping up the the plate and recognising the need for this extra care and how the schools previous behaviours have affected so many of their students.

We do this! It’s a waste of everyone’s time but we can tick off SMSC stuff. We bought a load of lessons that are unfit for purpose, nobody has time to change them all, staff hate teaching them because it takes time away from our normal lessons (GCSE and Alevel) kids hate it because they are really cheesy and unrelatable….. but we can tick off that we do it.

Our school doesn't meet this. Starts at 08:50, finishes at 15:00. It's not as simple as extending break and lunchtimes, as more than 50% of the kids use public (not school) transport and starting earlier or finishing later would mean the school day would no longer fit with the bus timetable. Buses are every 30 minutes so whilst not completely rural, I'd be put out at DD losing up to an hour of her day hanging around near the school for the sake of a slightly longer lunch break!

It's an ofsted outstanding school and other measures are also above average. So I really can't see how completely disrupting 1200 children's day is going to benefit their education here.

That seems a pretty short school day to me as it is. I would want that for my children.

@Nidan2Sandan That sounds great but in practise will be ill thought out activities and forcing kids to do MH stuff they have no interest in.