Govt extending school day by a few minutes in ignorance of how schools work

[noblegiraffe]

The government have decided to mandate a minimum 32.5 hour week for schools - the equivalent of being open from 8:45 to 3:15

This is not a specified teaching time, but opening time. Schools who are under will have to find ways to tack extra time onto the teaching day, perhaps by making lunchtime longer or adding an extra break. A school that has, for example, 20 minutes form time, 5 hours of lessons, 20 minutes of break and 40 minutes of lunch is not open long enough. One that has the same arrangement but 50 minutes lunch is fine.

Why? Fuck knows. What they have once again completely failed to do is consult schools about why their opening hours are as they are. Schools in my area, for example, have finely co-ordinated finishing times to avoid massive congestion. Schools who are under would have to consider opening earlier which will mess up buses, and screw those with childcare commitments. It's going to be logistically challenging to arrange, but of course, it won't be the DfE doing it.

schoolsweek.co.uk/schools-asked-to-offer-32-5-hour-week-by-2023-and-ofsted-will-check/

When i was at secondary we started at 08:55 had a 15 minute morning break, an hours lunch and finished at 15:50. My Granddaughter school start at 08:40 have 20 minute mid morning break, lunch is 13:00 til 14:00 and finish at 14:45, have no idea where the staff find to teach.

@SirChenjins

I wish they’d do that up here and do away with the ridiculous half days (which, despite what the unions might say, is very definitely not used for training or any other professional development - as confirmed by the empty school car parks and my teacher friends themselves)

Are you in Scotland? The half says absolutely will be used for a certain amount of training - or the school could choose to do the same training as twilight sessions, if they'd prefer. Schools (and to a lesser extent, staff) have autonomy over the arrangement of their week as long as the staff and pupils hours add up. If staff had training every Friday afternoon they would be massively over the hours allocated to this. And would need paid more than their counterparts in schools that don't distribute their week the same way. I wasn't in school on Friday afternoon for example, but I've spent an hour today on preparation and will be going back to it after a break for lunch and some arguing on mumsnet

@Gladioli23 that's the same time finish as our secondary. 2.50pm finish on Tuesday to Friday and 2pm finish on a Monday. 8.35 start every day.

@felulageller

School should be 9-4 as standard with some variation of necessary for local reasons.

Private schools have longer days and do better for it.

Having schools finish at 2.40 is a recipe for a bored youth and anti social behaviour.

Research shows that the best way to raise attainment and improve inequality is to have DC's in school more.

Can you link to this research please?

Is this equivalent to the 'research' the government has used?

Good. My kids school finished at 11am on Fridays wtf is the point in them going in. No extended hours the other 4 days so they are loosing a lot of hours.
Hoping this gives them a kick up the bottom!

I think this will be surprisingly expensive for very little gain.
If office staff, TAs, lunch time supervisors and cleaning contracts have to extend or move it will cost lots. Lots of schools are cutting them back.
I dont know about teaching contracts - can they add to teaching time without changing pay. Propbably. Poor teachers, they'll end up doing it without any support staff in..

Assuming this relates to England only?

This strikes me as a ‘dead cat’ to get everyone talking about this issue, whilst being distracted by more contentious issues in the white paper. It mentioned about forcing school to become academies - with the current reports of huge salaries given to the heads of these schools, at the expense of other spending, why are the government insisting this should happen? I haven’t been able to find details of what else is included in the paper but would be very interested to know.

@Piggywaspushed

Is this equivalent to the 'research' the government has used?

It's probably the same sort of research the kids do when you set them a project ie entirely made up or shit printed, willy nilly, from the internet

A lot of schools finish when they do in order that children can get home in daylight in the winter. So if the clocks were on BST all year round, the government edict would be easier to work to.

It seems to me to be announcing something instead of something meaningful, such as more resources, which a levy on all those of the Tory ministers' mates who got PPE contracts and profited perhaps could fund.

@ItsYabbaDabbaDoTime

Not sure this adds much to the debate, but shocked that Secondary schools near me start at 8.15 and finish at 2:45!

My school hours used to be 8.15 - 4 pm.

You almost certainly had longer breaks and longer lunchtimes. Most of the secondaries which finish so early have a very short lunch break. The number of teaching hours remained the same when some of these schools changed their hours.

I did 8:40 - 3:30 at school in the 70s-80:s, but had a break in the morning and afternoon, plus over an hour at lunch.

That's my kids school time I do not see the big deal

Some of you had very long school days! I finished secondary school nearly 30 years ago and my hours were 8.55 - 3.00.

@TheMarvelousMrsMaisel

Good. My kids school finished at 11am on Fridays wtf is the point in them going in. No extended hours the other 4 days so they are loosing a lot of hours. Hoping this gives them a kick up the bottom!

Every week?! That is scandalous.

We cut thirty mins off lunch. Smaller lunch groups equals less trouble. Shorter lunches equals less trouble. They already eat in shifts but it helped us to create a third sitting so more teachers free to supervise and less pressure on kitchen staff.
It has reduced our exclusion rate. Longer lunches would cause chaos again.

Mind you if we do private hours so we get private holiday allowance too?

My DS primary school is from 8.35am-8.45am until 3.15pm.
DD and older DS school is from 8.30am but can drop them off at 8am until 5pm. (Private). Have longer Holidays

The MarvellousMrsMaisel How on earth is any school allowed to finish at 11:00am every Friday ? It is certainly not for the benefit of the students therefore must be for the benefit of the staff.

@LowlandLucky

The MarvellousMrsMaisel How on earth is any school allowed to finish at 11:00am every Friday ? It is certainly not for the benefit of the students therefore must be for the benefit of the staff.

They have short (or no) breaks so that the required teaching hours are achieved over 4.5 day

IME it's for the benefit of the school budget. If all teachers have their PPA on Friday afternoon there's no need for cover and they don't need to employ any support staff for Friday afternoons.

IME teachers do tend to like it and some schools use it as a retention and recruitment tool. They can do their PPA in their own time if they prefer and get away early for the weekend.

My kids already have a 40 minute bus journey to the nearest school and walk to and from the bus stop in the dark for several months of the year. This just extends the number of days in which the kids will leave and come home in the dark.

My DD is 15, the school have decided that only one set of toilets should be open at morning break. A teacher is outside making sure that no more than 2 girls go in at the same time. If you are at the other side of the school and then have to wait, it can mean not getting a break or not going to the loo. There is no afternoon break. At lunch, depending on where you are in the building determines weather or not you get a lunch. If you don’t get to the canteen in the first few minutes then by the time you get served there is no food left. I welcome a longer day and more time to extend breaks.

For the school I work in, it is likely to mean an extra five minutes of break, and an extra ten minutes for lunch. It won’t mean any more actual lesson time. What a waste of energy.

@Flipflopssndsocks

We cut thirty mins off lunch. Smaller lunch groups equals less trouble. Shorter lunches equals less trouble. They already eat in shifts but it helped us to create a third sitting so more teachers free to supervise and less pressure on kitchen staff. It has reduced our exclusion rate. Longer lunches would cause chaos again.

Mind you if we do private hours so we get private holiday allowance too?

And smaller class sizes. And lots of money.

@noblegiraffe

Would you still be happy if your primary child could be no longer picked up from school because your older child was now having ten minutes extra at lunch?

Neither of my two primary schools have allowed an under 16 to pick up siblings, so which is the most common?

I have two local schools, only the one finishes in time for them to get to the primary school gate in time, (not the one my big two go to) This other school was also one of the catchment schools for the other primary (and where we lived) it may finish earlier but there is no way the kids could get from the senior to the primary.

Is this likely to be an issue on any kind of scale?

Can’t see a problem with this, it’s normal school times.

My daughters is 8.50-3.20.

Let’s not always find something to moan about.