Govt extending school day by a few minutes in ignorance of how schools work

[noblegiraffe]

The government have decided to mandate a minimum 32.5 hour week for schools - the equivalent of being open from 8:45 to 3:15

This is not a specified teaching time, but opening time. Schools who are under will have to find ways to tack extra time onto the teaching day, perhaps by making lunchtime longer or adding an extra break. A school that has, for example, 20 minutes form time, 5 hours of lessons, 20 minutes of break and 40 minutes of lunch is not open long enough. One that has the same arrangement but 50 minutes lunch is fine.

Why? Fuck knows. What they have once again completely failed to do is consult schools about why their opening hours are as they are. Schools in my area, for example, have finely co-ordinated finishing times to avoid massive congestion. Schools who are under would have to consider opening earlier which will mess up buses, and screw those with childcare commitments. It's going to be logistically challenging to arrange, but of course, it won't be the DfE doing it.

schoolsweek.co.uk/schools-asked-to-offer-32-5-hour-week-by-2023-and-ofsted-will-check/

Is this likely to be an issue on any kind of scale?

At the school I'm currently working in siblings collect about 60% of our year 3's and 4's. The year 5's and 6's walk home alone. It's only children in EYFS and KS1 who have to be collected by someone over 16. I can't imagine the school is that unusual.

Think most school are ? Ours is 850 drop off 320 pick up

Any teacher can go and work in a private school. Why don’t you if you want longer holidays? Some people like shorter teaching hours and fewer requirements for running clubs etc. Many private school teachers do a lot more for DC than teach the curriculum. It’s more a way of life for some.

Is this likely to be an issue on any kind of scale?

The nearest secondary to us does approx 8-2.15pm and we have huge numbers of our primary children collected by older siblings from this secondary under agreements made with the parents so they can work. It will be a problem on a large scale for our community if these times are changed.

I wonder if this will apply in special schools?
Ds does 915 -2pm.
This is because the taxi company used for transport can't accommodate all the children from all the local schools at 3pm.
If they could get more drivers, the school could open longer.

So if its forced to open for an extra hour or so, it would have a huge impact on the SEN transport situation.
The most vunerable kids would be left to find thier own way home.

@BeHappy91818

Can’t see a problem with this, it’s normal school times.

My daughters is 8.50-3.20.

Let’s not always find something to moan about.

It doesn’t affect you therefore you can’t see a problem with it

Any teacher can go and work in a private school. Why don’t you if you want longer holidays? Some people like shorter teaching hours and fewer requirements for running clubs etc. Many private school teachers do a lot more for DC than teach the curriculum. It’s more a way of life for some.

They couldn't because there's not enough jobs.

@LowlandLucky

The MarvellousMrsMaisel How on earth is any school allowed to finish at 11:00am every Friday ? It is certainly not for the benefit of the students therefore must be for the benefit of the staff.

It somebody is TTO and on less than 36/37.5 hours a week, it's certainly not for their benefit.

When I first started high school,

8.55 Registration/assembly

9.20 - 10.30 - 1 & 2 (35 mins each)

10.30 - 10.50 Break

10.50 - 12.00 3 & 4 (35 mins each)

12.00 - 1.00 Lunch

1.00 - 2.10 5 & 6 (35 mins each)

2.10 - shorter break

2.20 - 3.30 7 & 8 (35 mins each).

It fitted in with the average kid's attention span and a wide range of subjects, gave time for lunch and clubs and we were out later than the other schools in the area, so there was less opportunity for interschool mayhem. The prospect of detentions being held from quarter to four to half past four also made it less appealing a prospect to get one and clubs after school were usually an hour long.

There were no week 1 and week 2 timetables to get confused by, the older years got doubles for subjects, everybody had doubles for PE, plenty of time to take part in activities and eat even if you were in the lower years and had to wait until twenty past to get into the canteen. And you could go into the canteen from 8.00 so you could buy your lunch in advance if you weren't on free school meals, have some toast and a hot chocolate and then go to class. Plus vending machines for drinks and snacks.

There was time for everything and nothing felt too much, compared to recent years where a kid could be in compulsory intervention from 7.30am, have two-hour-long lessons, then just a few minutes to try and get food before back in for another hour, then a few minutes lunch with another intervention session before another solid two hours before having to attend more intervention until about 5.30pm. Made sod all difference to the results - probably because the poor buggers were completely burned out - and the change coincided almost exactly with the huge rise in emotional and mental health issues. If anything, the attainment of the lower ability groups was higher in the old system because they could access shorter lessons more easily.

It sounds sensible to me. The school days are much longer in Asia etc. Locally the kids are leaving at 2 or 2:30 some days. The staff carpark is empty by 4. Staff go on about all the work they have to do from home but if they stayed at work til 6 like the rest of us then they'd have their evenings free!

The staff carpark is empty by 4. Staff go on about all the work they have to do from home but if they stayed at work til 6 like the rest of us then they'd have their evenings free!

Probably full from 8. What childcare is open til 6? Latest I have ever found is 5.30 and that's flipping expensive.

The staff carpark is empty by 4. Staff go on about all the work they have to do from home but if they stayed at work til 6 like the rest of us then they'd have their evenings free!

Maybe the car park is empty because they have gone to collect their own children and spend time with them before completing work once they are asleep.

I'm actually amazed at the amount of people who think just because it doesn't impact their kids schools it isn't an issue.

like the rest of us. Really?

Not sure where 'etc' is but the school days are not longer in many parts of Asia. This is largely because of the huge expectation on parents to also educate children.

@noblegiraffe

My school is just down the road from a primary school. If our end time were to increase to match govt requirements, we'd be kicking out at around the same time and the traffic would be horrendous.

I'm not entirely sure where primary parents would then be able to park to do their pick-up.

They'll have to walk and use public transport which ties into the 2030 goal of reducing private car use.

@tiredanddangerous

Stupid idea. All it means is that some schools will add 5/10 mins to break and lunch. How is that benefiting the children's education?

Did they state the aim was to improve children's education?

If not what did they state the aim was?

And finally, what do you think is the true aim?

They'll have to walk and use public transport which ties into the 2030 goal of reducing private car use.

We live somewhere with fab public transport which isn't the capital but I'm not self centred enough to assume this is the norm, in fact I'm acutely aware of how unusual that is.

Maybe this would be a viable solution if the government also invested in public transport but until then of course people will use their cars and they should do so without judgement.

They'll have to walk and use public transport which ties into the 2030 goal of reducing private car use.

😂😂😂

I remember during the petrol shortages people suggesting walking or public transport completely oblivious to the situation many people live in where that's not possible.

Our school is 5 mins short of this per day - but they have a shorter lunch than most schools, 50 mins, not less lesson time. I imagine they’ll just have to tack 5 mins into the end or beginning of the day and extend lunch time, it’s hardly going to make a big difference to the learning. Again, an example of the government doing something for the sake of looking like their doing something and yet achieving fuck all. Pointless.

They'll have to walk and use public transport which ties into the 2030 goal of reducing private car use.
That'll be fabulous for our kids who live in villages with two buses a day - at 11 and 4 - along narrow lanes which would take hours to walk.

School days in England are insanely short and holidays madly long (I grew up in the Southern Hemisphere but have lived here 20 years).

@Hercisback
Of course there are vacancies in private schools. Very many have recruitment issues too.

I think a few minutes here or there at the end of the day makes not much difference. If secondary DC are used as child minders, this shouldn’t impact the education of anyone. Most people I know who work full time gave friends who take primary DC in and collect. Secondary Dc take care of themselves. Transport contracts can be renegotiated and frequently are. All the time in fact!

Funding after school clubs for those who want it, would have been better.

Emgland school days are longer than many. Ireland for example finish earlier.

Our holidays are shorter than the US etc.

Not sure our kids are in school particularly long!

School days in England are insanely short and holidays madly long (I grew up in the Southern Hemisphere but have lived here 20 years).

Swings and roundabouts. I suppose we must fair in about the middle, hardly ‘insanely short’. I have family in Germany, my cousins all used to be home by half 12. I think the school day starts about an hour earlier at around 8. Having lessons go on until half 3 like me would have been an outrage to them 😄

It will be a potential headache for special schools who often have finely coordinated transport arrangements with multiple private companies