Govt extending school day by a few minutes in ignorance of how schools work

[noblegiraffe]

The government have decided to mandate a minimum 32.5 hour week for schools - the equivalent of being open from 8:45 to 3:15

This is not a specified teaching time, but opening time. Schools who are under will have to find ways to tack extra time onto the teaching day, perhaps by making lunchtime longer or adding an extra break. A school that has, for example, 20 minutes form time, 5 hours of lessons, 20 minutes of break and 40 minutes of lunch is not open long enough. One that has the same arrangement but 50 minutes lunch is fine.

Why? Fuck knows. What they have once again completely failed to do is consult schools about why their opening hours are as they are. Schools in my area, for example, have finely co-ordinated finishing times to avoid massive congestion. Schools who are under would have to consider opening earlier which will mess up buses, and screw those with childcare commitments. It's going to be logistically challenging to arrange, but of course, it won't be the DfE doing it.

schoolsweek.co.uk/schools-asked-to-offer-32-5-hour-week-by-2023-and-ofsted-will-check/

Id love it if ours had longer days and finished early friday! Great for kids to have the freetime in the daytime and also more opportunity to go swimming/etc

I agree there should be onsite optional childcare/activities though.

Friends in edinburgh where it is common like it as the whole area seems geared up to early finush friday!

Round me the standard for secondary schools seems to be 8.30 -3. So I don’t think they’ll have to change. On the other hand I’ve seen quite a few critiques of the trend for diminishing break times, as in longer breaks actually are good for educational/developmental outcomes. There’s the behaviour side of things to counteract that and I think a lot of schools now struggle for outdoor space which makes it harder to provide a decent lunch break experience, but, as I understand it, unstructured time with peers in a safe environment is *in theory a good thing.

For the entirety of my school life the times were 9 - 3.30. Perfectly normal school day length.

Some of the ones round here do 8.30 - 3, or 8.45 - 3.15 instead.

Can't see what all the fuss is about.

When I was at secondary school in the 80s our day was 8.45-2.45 with two 25 minute breaks (you either had lunch 11.30-11.55 or 1.05-1.30). So short days and short lunch breaks are not new.
My primary school days were longer, but lots of us went home for lunch.
I'm all for an extended day for those who want it, as long as it's properly delivered enrichment activities. But that requires funding, and this government has slashed real terms education spending over the past decade.
An absolutely pointless announcement that makes it sound like they are doing something but will achieve nothing!

Our school used to be open those hours. Then we had to cut down the lunch hour because of fights, bullying, vandalism and not enough supervision. So the day ended earlier.
Sometimes it really worries me how little the government understands schools. But I suppose if all you know is Eton/Harrow, that skews your perception.

"But as you've noted it's impossible to get 90 pupils on and off a bus at one time. So we are in school 9-3 but some children will be in from 8.45 and others from 9. Some will leave at 3 and others at 3.15"

Yes you cannot have all the kids and vehicles in the car park at the same time. I also do not want my child travelling any earlier in the morning as mornings are already problematic enough and he is by no means living the most distant from the school.

I’d be interested to know if it applies across the board or just has to be open. At our school the year 6s do 8.40- 3.20 but the reception children do a shorter day 9-2.50 with staggered start/finish times across the year groups. So the older ones would need the new guidance but the younger ones wouldn’t but everyone likes the staggered times as it improves traffic/car park flow.

More unpaid time for TAs!

Stupid idea. All it means is that some schools will add 5/10 mins to break and lunch. How is that benefiting the children's education?

I agree.
Most schools do these hours anyway but for those that don’t they’ll simply add it on to break and lunch times - surely it’s more beneficial for the child to go home 10mins early or encourage them to do an after school club.

The minimum hours aren't compulsory, so schools don't have to offer if they choose not to (and can be confident that they are offering a good quality education).

"The minimum hours will be an expectation rather than a new statutory duty for schools. But Ofsted will be asked to report on schools that miss the target if they are also found to be providing a poor quality of education"

I'm in favour of this. My DS's school only offers a 6 hour school day (they "lost" 15 mins in lockdown and never got it back). I notice that 97% of primary schools offer a longer day than this. I don't think schools should be able to just cut their opening hours like this, and there should be some standardisation.

Well our school has found the opposites / they just did a consultation to reduce the school day by taking time away from breaks and lunchtime and the majority of students/teachers/parents voted to not twice the school hours for a variety of reasons!
Reducing lunchtime would have meant no time for clubs (and we are a rural school so lots of kids go home on buses so afterschool clubs are not always an option of thier parents work so can’t come pick them up)

The primary I work in is open from 8.50-3.15, so 5 minutes earlier is achievable.

As it is, a village bus drops three pupils off at 8.35 well before the start of the children's day. They either help set up, read or make a start on the early morning work. 5 minutes for all children is going to make zero difference.

My school times were:
9-3 in my first primary. (1980s)
8.55-3.15 in my second primary.
8.50-3.40 in my secondary.
DC1 (at secondary) does 8.45-3.15.

All state schools.

@Hercisback can I ask how would be better to deal with the situation/problem in our area (the half days on Fridays)? Genuinely interested. I’m not in education and my children’s school doesn’t do this, but a couple of friends have and it has caused/is causing problems (as people go back into offices).

@MelCat There are ways to deal with the half day Friday, eg mandate all schools must operate core hours of 9.30-2.45 every day. This allows for flexibility but doesn't mean every school HAS to be open 6.5 hours a day (for no extra learning time).

Totally unsuitable for those who use local bus services. The bus to our village only runs four times a day. Within three miles of school so no school bus but a long walk.

I agree with you re half days too, shouldn't be happening unless there is some provision for children to be in school until the normal end time.

I don't think there is a way to stop half day fridays- schools that do this are desperately trying to save money and use it for staffing. It's a tried and tested approach in many areas (ie edinburgh where it is the norm.)

On a personal level the only way to deal with it is to either change working hours on a Friday or to use childcare/afterschool clubs.

It would be good if in areas where this is common to privide kids activities for example - perfect for a friday afternoon when desk work can be tricky concentration wise and sport would be fab

@Hercisback thanks for coming back and suggesting how it could be done more sensibly.

There has been a tendency for the school day overall to get shorter and probably the main reason is lunchtimes becoming shorter. It's a relatively easy solution, when schools are forced to operate to a shrinking budget, to cut the hours of lunchtime supervisors.

It sounds to me like the ‘Government’ were looking for a free way to do something they can claim helps children recover from the lockdown hits to their education.

The Conservatives always put dimwits in charge of education as they don’t think it’s a powerful or glam job like Foreign Office or Home Office or Chancellor. It keeps loyal dimwits quiet by letting them in Cabinet but thisnisnone of the reasons UK State education is such a mess and so far behind state education in much of mainland Europe.

Is there actually any childcare available for school aged children on a Friday afternoon, though?

This must be a nightmare for a lot of working partners.

My kids school is one that would be affected by this. There are 5hrs of lessons a day, like most schools, but tutor time is 20mins, break 20mins and lunch 30mins, so school day is 6hrs 10mins.

I’m not sure it would be @spudjulia (ours is the same.)

I don’t think they are necessarily demanding five minutes here or there, it’s more for schools that go home early on Friday or similar.

Yup - sometimes the school will provide childcare on the friday afternoon for a small fee (the birmingham example was £2 and only had 30 kids take it up).

There are so many schools now starting to do this (and the whole of Edinburgh - it would be huge to go back on that!) But the real driver for this has been funding. It would be better to increase school funding. Some schools that went down this road due to lack of funding though have said now they have seen the benefit that they would keep it!

School budgets have been cut to the bone and with the fuel costs increasing too this will only get worse. At the end of the day the students suffer as already we have seen less TAs in classrooms and it is now common to have an afternoon/day a week taught by an hlta instead of a qualified teacher. People really should be arguing for better funding.

And yes the argument IS for the "5 mins here or there" which is exactly why its a ridiculous bill.

"The 32.5 hour school week is equivalent to 08:45 to 15.15, with the government arguing that a child with a school day shorter by 20 minutes a day would lose two weeks of schooling over the course of a year."

In reality this will be the extra 10mins added to lunch but as above there are good reasons for schools to finish/start when they do when you look at transport and area.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-60875162