Page 39 | Can't cope with DS being transgender

YellowBrickWall · 2022-03-25T12:57:16+00:00

This is so hard. I feel like I'm in a very weird place. I am absolutely gutted and just want it to not be happening. He is 23 and lives with us. I thought we had escaped this trend but he's got caught up in it. I don't know what to do. It's hard to describe but I simply cannot go along with it. It's not true, he's not a woman, he never will be. I hate the gaslighting, it's so distressing. This is upsetting me so much but I don't know what to do. He's an adult and can do what he wants but unfortunately this particular thing requires my involvement and I can't. I am totally against it. There seems to be no middle ground, I either go against everything I know and believe or I won't be involved in his life. It feels like blackmail. It feels shit. I hate it.

ChelseaRobertsofMalibu · 10/10/2022 13:52

YellowBrickWall · 10/10/2022 01:03

Many posters have said it's just a name and pronouns. The name I'm not so bothered about but the pronouns are those that belong to females. DS says that as he is female, we must use those pronouns. So it's much more than just using the 'acceptable' words. It's the first step to validating him as a woman. And I can't do that because he is not a woman and he never will be.

I know lots of people think it's harmless but perhaps they haven't followed the process to it's 'logical' conclusion i.e. if he is a woman, as he says he is, there is no word to classify women of the female sex (as differentiated to women of the male sex) and therefore no way to protect them in law and in society. Many, many people have not thought about this at all but I have, and I am firmly on the side of women's rights so I cannot agree that he is a woman just because he says he is. He has never experienced a single thing that women have experienced because of their sex and he never will.

We have to accept that DS doesn't want us in his life because we do not affirm that he is a woman. It's not our choice, we did not instigate this, we have not changed, we are the same loving parents we have always been and all we can do is hope that one day he realises this.

DH and I talked about this a bit more this evening. He said that he has been trying to block it from his mind and not think about it as it's so upsetting. Then he cried. We've been together for over 30 years and I have only seen him cry once, which was when his dad died.

This ideology harms so many people. It breaks up friendship and families. And for what? A person who can only be happy with those who affirm their fantasy? What kind of life is that.

I wish the people promoting this had gone about it in a totally different way. I wish they had acknowledged that there is a difference between women and transwomen. I wish they had expanded the bandwidth of men to includes males who are feminine. I wish that men could wear whatever clothes they like without making it a parody of a woman. I wish women were listened to in society. I wish men were not so arrogant in telling women what a woman is. I wish women who support this ideology (like my DD) would open their eyes and see that they have got so used to having rights, they are taking them for granted and throwing them away.

But most of all I wish this had not come into my own home and broken up my family.

I know lots of posters won't get it and will still go on about pronouns. All I can say is, it's not about transpeople, it's about men. Males pushing through laws that remove safeguarding. They are doing it under the cover of LGB and telling people to be kind. My answer now is, you first.

I'm so sorry that this is still going on. To be genuinely honest I'd very politely ask him to leave. Especially if I had younger children. I wouldn't want them influenced by this trend he's following.
He would likely be happier and more relaxed in his own environment anyway.

FWIW I fully and completely agree with everything you've said. You made a fantastic point about there being no difference in pronouns between female & trans female. I think that's a really important point!

ChelseaRobertsofMalibu · 10/10/2022 13:57

Apologies I missed the part about him getting married. He's obviously no longer living there. The app is playing up for me today when I select to view OP's posts only, it's not loading the recent ones! 🤦🏼‍♀️

MenopausalMe · 10/10/2022 14:15

YellowBrickWall I’ve such admiration for how you have handled this. I discovered one of my sons had called a woman a ‘terf’ on twitter and the pure rage I felt that he had such disrespect for women took both of us by surprise.

I will always try and do what is best for my children but like you I cannot believe letting one of them bully and coerce me into pretending to believe a lie, and a lie moreover that tramples on other peoples rights, is what is best for anyone.

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 10/10/2022 14:19

If you have read anything about the suicide risk for trans people you will know that the biggest risk factor is being unsupported by their family. You have rejected your child in the most fundamental way. You have put your ideology above your own child. It may not be too late for you to apologise to them and try to rebuild a loving relationship. I hope you can find it in your heart to do so.

ChelseaRobertsofMalibu · 10/10/2022 14:28

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 10/10/2022 14:19

If you have read anything about the suicide risk for trans people you will know that the biggest risk factor is being unsupported by their family. You have rejected your child in the most fundamental way. You have put your ideology above your own child. It may not be too late for you to apologise to them and try to rebuild a loving relationship. I hope you can find it in your heart to do so.

How dare you guilt trip and emotionally blackmail OP???? That is appalling and reprehensible. OP's stance on this is both admirable and correct! She has not rejected anybody, she has merely stood by her beliefs and her rights! Her son is the one who walked away

nexus63 · 10/10/2022 14:57

i was a PA to a lady and we became good friends, her son who was in his 30s told his mum he was transgender and was going to be a women, next day he told me, he thought i would be shocked but it was his life, i did not have a problem calling them a different name, she has had all the surgery and has been in a relationship for more than 10 years, she is not suffering from the mental health problems or the depression that had taken over her life from the age of about 14, she is happy and has a great job. i have one child and if he had came and told me he was gay or trans i would have been fine with it. i would do anything rather than lose my son, i know you can't get your head around this but it is your son's life, he is not happy and has mental health problems, you can either be a parent and friend or cut all ties with your child......i know which one i would pick.

Pudmyboy · 10/10/2022 15:30

@YellowBrickWall just saw this thread and wanted to send you 💐💐💐
I admire you so much for your clarity and articulation and your dignity and steadfastness.
I have learned so much from reading this thread, and thank you for your insights.
I wish you and your family joy in the future, and hope that future is not too distant

Discovereads · 10/10/2022 17:51

CrossStichQueen · 10/10/2022 12:49

Again, all paranoid hot air with absolutely zero evidence this will happen.

Actually I have first hand experience.
I work within a council and the area I cover is very multicultural with English not being the first or even second language for many, mostly women.
Every so often we will run various public campaigns which have lots of topics from mental health support, healthy eating for children and just after lock down a womens health campaign. The amount of women who attended and did not know the correct names for their body parts not even in their language was quite eye opening. Trying to explain what a cervix was and where it was made me preform some very interesting charades!
One of the things that was understood was the word woman as was the words babies and children both written and spoken.

I am sure you will inform me I am lying and I am more than happy to provide proof to MNHQ of the work I do and the council campaigns I have organised.

ok, but that is an example of not knowing what a cervix is. It is not an example of a person with a cervix missing out on a cervical smear because of that lack of knowledge.

The same for your suggestion to Google surveys as to who knows what a cervix is, or isn’t. Again, this is not evidence that anyone is missing out on needed medical care.

Discovereads · 10/10/2022 17:55

LemonSwan · 10/10/2022 13:09

Because most women don’t have a gender. So when TW are saying they are women. What they are really trying to say is they are female.

But honestly Discovery this thread isn’t about Trans rights, your debate or anything else. There’s a thousand threads where you can go through this all round and round and round. What you are talking about are really the basics of the issue.

This thread is about OP and her son. What you are saying is not actually helpful relevant situation. It’s quite impolite.

I posted a post to the OP. And it was all relevant to her situation as it’s challenging the propaganda about transgender being “nonsense and dangerous”
All this is a result of you lot attacking my post to the OP
If you were really concerned about “politeness” you would have let my post stand and not gone tilting at windmills like rabid Don Quixotes.

Discovereads · 10/10/2022 17:56

CrossStichQueen · 10/10/2022 13:08

Good post, I just though on this one sentence why wouldn’t women retain two identities as well? W and female?

Because if a male can be a woman then the word woman no longer includes females.

Yes it does. That’s a pretty silly reaction really.

CallTheMobWife · 10/10/2022 18:01

Discovereads · 10/10/2022 17:56

Yes it does. That’s a pretty silly reaction really.

Show quote history

Goodness, you really are confused. No need to call others silly though, when its clearly you struggling!

If you open up the meaning of a word to mean the opposite of the word, the word no longer has a meaning at all. For example, if we say that vegetarians can include meat eaters, the word vegetarians loses all meaning.
IF we say the word women can also mean men, the word woman loses all meaning.

Are you following?

CrossStichQueen · 10/10/2022 18:18

Yes it does. That’s a pretty silly reaction really

Nothing silly about it. Women are adult human females once you include males in the definition of women you remove uts meaning.

Discovereads · 10/10/2022 18:20

CallTheMobWife · 10/10/2022 18:01

Goodness, you really are confused. No need to call others silly though, when its clearly you struggling!

If you open up the meaning of a word to mean the opposite of the word, the word no longer has a meaning at all. For example, if we say that vegetarians can include meat eaters, the word vegetarians loses all meaning.
IF we say the word women can also mean men, the word woman loses all meaning.

Are you following?

Show quote history

So I can’t say you have a silly reaction, but you are free to say the below to me?

“Come now, you're not that stupid, are you?”
“you utter moron.”
“You are so brainwashed you are addled beyond belief. There is no hope of you following my arguments, you don't even understand your own! Or language, apparently.”

🤔🤔🤔🤔 Noting the double standards here. You’re actually quite lucky that I am being so much more polite than you if you are so sensitive. Imagine if I’d said to you the insults you’d said to me?

Besides the opposite of woman is man, not male. So by including transwomen as women, it’s not actually opening up women to the opposite of women, (which is men not male) as transwomen are not men.

Even if it did, all meaning isn’t lost it just becomes an exercise in fuzzy logic instead of classic logic when assessing what is a woman vs what is a man. The same applies to other identifiers like old/young, black/white, abled/disabled.

CrossStichQueen · 10/10/2022 18:28

Transwomen are male the word for adult human male is man.
I think you have taken over enough of the OPs thread Discover and I do not want to aid your derailment of it so will not engage with you further.

CallTheMobWife · 10/10/2022 18:29

Well yes, I am free to say those very accurate things. You had a pop at me when you totally misunderstood my very easy to read post, and sneered and laughed while being very very wrong.

You ARE addled. You can't follow your own arguments. You don't make the slightest sense.
I mean, this nonsense:

Besides the opposite of woman is man, not male. So by including transwomen as women, it’s not actually opening up women to the opposite of women, (which is men not male) as transwomen are not men.

Men are male. Transwomen are male, and men, or you can call them transwomen to denote a type of male. Women are female. Females are women.
Transwomen are not women.
Come now, you know this.

You are well aware that a person with a penis and a y chromosome is both male and a man. This is basic knowledge learned in school.

Discovereads · 10/10/2022 18:35

I had a pop at you? You are sorely mistaken, scroll back m’dear and you’ll see I did not address you. You posted to me first taking a crack at my posts. The first time, I ignored you, but the second time you said
No she doesn't, not once. Are you quite well? #

I then quite politely responded to you and quoted a scientific study proving my point. To which you said:
Oh do shut up and That study is a big pile of bullshit.

Discovereads · 10/10/2022 18:39

But I’ll bite
Men are male. Transwomen are male. Transwomen are women. Women are female. Transmen are female. Transmen are men.

Come now, you know this. I think you need to go beyond the basics of school.

picklemewalnuts · 10/10/2022 19:13

There's only room for 30 more comments on this thread. Let's save it for OP, not arguing with discoverreads whose only desire is to derail the thread away from OPs sad situation.

waterlego · 10/10/2022 20:02

Men are male. Transwomen are male. Transwomen are women. Women are female. Transmen are female. Transmen are men.

@Discovereads, did you honestly think that made sense when you wrote it?

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 10/10/2022 20:02

For my part yellowbrickroad i hope you and your son can come together again and get some peace

its obviously incredibly painful that you aren’t able to attend the wedding and i think some of the suggestions about sending a letter telling him how you much you love him and will always be there for him is a good idea.

i am truly very sorry you are in this position 💐

Ghislainedefeligonde · 10/10/2022 20:26

yellowbrick you are incredibly brave and principled and I hope your son can start to understand things from your point of view soon. Its so unreasonable for him to expect you to change your history to fit with his new version of reality.
The new craze of pretending biology isn’t real is infuriating and nonsensical esp at a time when women’s rights are being rolled back at an alarming rate

Citycentre3 · 10/10/2022 21:16

Sometimes I wonder if it is the luxury of the English language that has fuelled the trend, as the language itself is gender neutral. How do French, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese speakers cope where every single word in their language is either Masculine or Feminine? I genuinely wonder.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 10/10/2022 21:39

Discovereads · 10/10/2022 13:04

Trans women actually retain two identities - TW and male. It is women who end up with none.

Good post, I just though on this one sentence why wouldn’t women retain two identities as well? W and female?

Because if trans women are women, then most women aren't. Because most women don't 'identify' as a woman. This has been said loads before. Not sure what makes it so hard to listen to - though maybe I do? TW are chasing a rainbow in thinking (or hoping) that they are 'like women'. They do not have female bodies and there is no female essence/ identity which they can claim to experience either. The bottom line is hard for them to hear but it still exists - TW have nothing in common with most women. There is no sense in a social category which includes a small percentage of males and a small percentage of females.

Again no proof whatsoever that people who actually need cervical smears are or will miss out due to GPs sending invites to everyone with a cervix?

You must know that health care is an imperfect system. Reminders do not always get sent out at all so if you have a cervix but don't know it, you will not pick up on the simple message that 'women need a cervical smear'. You might be happy to take chances with people's health in this way given no 'proof' that this will occur but personally I take a more respectful attitude. It is not a great leap of logic to figure out that there is a significant chance that people will be denied healthcare if we pretend that women are men and vice versa.

Potplanta · 10/10/2022 21:41

Trans activists are pushing for those languages to be changed, and [some] people are backing down. It's messy.
It does seem a pain to me that in German they repeat words so that both men and women are included. For example a sentence would say "Studenten und Studentinnen" where we would say "students". But now universities are moving to using "Studierende" instead. That means "those who are studying".

CallTheMobWife · 10/10/2022 21:43

Discovereads · 10/10/2022 18:39

But I’ll bite
Men are male. Transwomen are male. Transwomen are women. Women are female. Transmen are female. Transmen are men.

Come now, you know this. I think you need to go beyond the basics of school.

I don't know what planet you went to school on. On Earth, the above sentence you wrote makes no sense at all.

Transwomen are not women, they are men, because they are male.
Male = men
Female= women.

If you're confused I have a toddler here that can explain it to you?